Dating After Divorce with Jennifer Hurvitz

We Chat Divorce Podcast welcomes Jennifer Hurvitz!

Jennifer is known for her no-nonsense approach to all things relationships and is proud to say she’s made quite the career out of pretty disastrous circumstances…her own divorce.

Jennifer is a Certified Divorce Specialist (CDS™), public speaker, best- selling author, and host of the Doing Divorce Right Podcast. Divorced since 2014, Jennifer lives in Charlotte with her two kick-ass teenage boys. Through her popular blog, The Truth Hurvitz, and weekly podcast, Jennifer helps people understand what a happy divorce can look like and how to dip their toes back into the dating world. She loves sharing her insight on how to stay in a successful marriage, too! Jen has also been featured on OprahMagazine.com, twice! And look out for her TEDx Talk in 2021!

In this episode, Karen and Catherine chat with Jennifer about…

• Jennifer’s straightforward approach to Divorce Coaching, from establishing your divorce team, coparenting, dating, and setting goals!
• Dating After Divorce and Your Non-Negotiables List
• Lower Your Expectations and Just Have Fun!
• Financial Red Flags

If you have questions for us or a topic you’d like us to cover, contact us at hello@mydivorcesolution.com or visit MyDivorceSolution.com 

Karen Chellew:

Hello. Today we are here with Jennifer Hurvitz. Jennifer is known for her no-nonsense approach to all things relationships and is proud to say she’s made quite the career out of pretty disastrous circumstances, i.e. her own divorce. She’s a certified divorce specialist, CDS, public speaker, bestselling author, and host of the Doing Divorce Right podcast. Jennifer’s been divorced since 2014. She lives in Charlotte, North Carolina, with her two kick-ass teenage boys. Through her popular blog, The Truth Hurvitz, I like that, and weekly podcast. Jennifer helps people understand what a happy divorce can look like and how to dip their toes back into the dating world. She loves sharing her insight on how to stay in a successful marriage too. Jen’s been featured on OprahMagazine.com twice and look out for her TED Talk in 2020, her TEDx talk in 2020. Welcome Jennifer.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Hi guys. I’m so glad to be here finally. Yay.

Catherine Shanahan:

We love talking to you. You bring such a great, positive feel to the day.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Thank you.

Catherine Shanahan:

We’re so happy you’re on here with us.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I’m so glad to be here. I’m so sad because my TED Talk is being postponed to next year. You’ll see me next year, hopefully.

Catherine Shanahan:

Well that will come quick enough.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I know. Right? I know. After all this time, this whole COVID thing.

Karen Chellew:

Now we’ll be on pins and needles for a year.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Aw. Yeah. You know what? Me too. It’s so stressful. How are you?

Catherine Shanahan:

It’s so nice having you here because you’re an expert to help our clients or our listeners. It’s so hard when you go through your divorce, you’re so used to … I was with my ex for 23 years, so you’re so used to bouncing everything off of them. Even though I made a lot of decisions on my own, I’m pretty independent, you always made those decisions based on you and your spouse.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh, yeah.

Catherine Shanahan:

Then at the end when you get divorced you’re like, “Where do I turn to now?” because you feel alone. It’s not necessarily you want to date right away, but who gives me advice and who can I get that second opinion from? How do you advise people to find that person?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh my gosh. Well, you know the craziest thing is when you first get out of your marriage and then you look at this divorce, you have all these options and now you feel like … You look around, you’re like, “What do I do?” I was lucky. I was in a different position than most people. I always start out by saying this. I feel like I’m best friends with my wusband, I call him my wusband, and we’re really good friends. I was in a happy divorce kind of immediately. Right?

Catherine Shanahan:

Wait. Can we back up one second?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh, sure.

Catherine Shanahan:

Wusband?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

My wusband. I call him my wusband. I don’t like to call him my ex-husband because I feel like that’s … We’re just such good friends and I hate that. That’s not typical.

Catherine Shanahan:

I like that. I never heard that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I think I should trademark that.

Catherine Shanahan:

You should.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I should.

Karen Chellew:

I think you should too.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I heard it on a podcast. God, it was one of my first podcasts like two years ago, and I was speaking to this host. He said something, that how his wife calls him her wusband, and I’m like, “Oh my God, can I steal that?” He’s like, “Take it, take it.” I’m like, “I’m taking it.” It’s not even mine originally-

Karen Chellew:

I love it.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

But I just trademark it.

Catherine Shanahan:

I love that. Go ahead.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I call him my wusband, and we’re such good friends that I hate to call him my ex, but that’s not typical. Lots of tumultuous divorces, most are not amicable, most are high conflict. You get out of your marriage, and you’re thrown into this sea of emotions. You’re sad, and you’re highs and lows and then you’re like, “Who helps me? Where do I turn?” Then all of a sudden, I think more recently, there’s coaches and there’s therapists, and there’s CFAs, and there’s financial planners, and there’s divorce solution people, right? You guys. Who do you use? Because you can’t have everybody, because it’s expensive. Right?

Karen Chellew:

Right.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I was thinking about it. We were talking about this before the show and I was like, “Who would I use?” At the time, I was completely lost. I think I had stepped back and I didn’t use anybody. I was like, “I’m going to do this by myself. I can handle this.” Biggest mistake ever. I think when you girls were on my show, I was very clear and I said, “If I could pick one person, I would pick you all.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I would go to My Divorce Solution, if I saw you online. I don’t mean to toot your horn here, but I would, because I feel like … I do, I send my clients to you because I feel like if you’re going to spend your money…no pun, ironically, I would spend your money on how to use your money moving forward because I feel like, especially me, I was in a marriage for 13 years. My ex, my wusband, was a financial planner, he was in finance. I had no clue how to balance a checkbook for God’s sake. I was a stay-at-home mom, my job were my kids. I would have loved to have someone like you all who helped me with making big financial decisions that were important in the future because my emotions were spinning out and I didn’t have something like you now.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah. You really need a good financial grounding where you need to develop a good relationship with money whether you like it or not.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah, I didn’t have-

Catherine Shanahan:

Whatever the scenario is because that is the basis for the rest of your life, basically. I do wish everybody would come to, well, obviously us. But a financial person that has no stake in the game, which would be the best case scenario.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Exactly, because I didn’t. I didn’t have anything, so was making big decisions like my house. What was I going to do with selling the house? Then also, budgeting because I didn’t have a budget. My wusband and I, he did the checks and bills. Then all of a sudden, my lifestyle changed so drastically. Right? But instead of doing that, I was like, “I’m going to start dating. I’m going to get out there. I can handle this. I can do this,” and I wasn’t ready. At least, I feel like if you’re not going to use your money wisely, then get a financial planner, or a CFA, a coach, a divorce coach, a therapist. Someone who says, “Slow down. Slow down and really focus on yourself before you even start dating,” because that was a huge mistake I made as well.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah. Well, second time marriages has the highest divorce rate.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh yeah. I think it’s 73.

Catherine Shanahan:

It’s because of exactly that reason.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right. 73% because you’re like, “What am I going to do?” Yeah, you don’t even know who you are as a person and you start dating, and then your finances get involved there too.

Karen Chellew:

Oh my God, yes they do. Having that financial foundation really just becomes the anchor point for everything you’re going to do beyond that-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Absolutely.

Karen Chellew:

… Every single thing. Whether you’re hiring a therapist or a coach, or you’re looking to date someone else, or you’re planning for your kids, or you’re planning for your new home. It definitely becomes the reference point. So many couples come in and say, “Oh, we have it all figured out. We just need to clean this up.” That’s about 1% actually, because there’s so many details that they just don’t know what they don’t know. Then if you get farther down that road, like you said, of dating and continuing your life without pausing, yeah it’s-

Catherine Shanahan:

Well ladies, let’s be clear about this. There a lot of men, men get the bad rap although it’s true, that go … I mean, I’m sorry, men get the rap they’re going after women and the women are going after them for their money. Well it goes the other way around too.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Sure.

Catherine Shanahan:

There are a lot of men that are coming after women with money-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Well, that’s what happened to me. I’m telling you, I remember, I thought I was ready to date and I thought I had it all together. I started dating, and I remember dating this guy and he was like, I think it was, “You need to sell your car because my kid’s hockey equipment won’t fit in the car you have.” I was like, “Oh, okay. Okay. That’s a great idea.” I clearly was not in the right head space if I’m listening to the guy that I thought was going to be my next … Meanwhile, I had 13 boyfriends after that.

Catherine Shanahan:

I wish I would have known you then. I would have been like, “What? No.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

If I would have had it… right? If I would have had a financial planner or a CFA working with me, they would have stopped me and said, “Whoa. Pull on those reins. That ain’t happening, girl.” If I would have had a me, a divorce coach at the time, I would have known and I would have said to my client, “Girl, no. That is not happening.”

Catherine Shanahan:

When does the divorce coach come in?-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Great gosh.

Catherine Shanahan:

… What’s the difference between them, your divorce coach and your therapist?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh gosh, please listen very carefully because this is one of my biggest pet peeves and I really feel… I hope I’m not offending anybody right now. A divorce coach is so different than a therapist, and divorce coaches are going to be… Hopefully they’re not mad at me, but I have turned away so many clients and said, “Please, you need a therapist.” Not to hurt anyone’s feelings but, “I am not your person right now.” I do a 30 minute free consult call and specifically for this reason a therapist is someone who’s going to help you emotionally. Clearly right out of your marriage, when emotions are high, you need a therapist. You need someone who can clinically help you get through the emotional part of your sadness.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

This is not… A coach, I’m not that. I don’t have a degree in psychology, I’m not a social worker. I’m a coach, I’m a cheerleader. I’m your girl who’s going to say, “Look, here’s what you need.” I’m going to help you plan for finding your estate planner, I’m going to help you get your CFA, I’m going to help you get your ducks in a row. When you come to me and say, “I’m ready to date.” I’m going to help you write your online dating profile. That’s who I am. I am not going to be able to talk you down off a ledge or from stopping to eat that ice cream in the middle of the night. That’s not my job. Do you know what I’m saying?

Catherine Shanahan:

Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And I’m not going to take your money. I think if a divorce coach… I’m trying not to… If a divorce coach takes your money right out of the gate, that’s not okay.

Catherine Shanahan:

So you need a therapist to clear your path to the coach.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, yes.

Catherine Shanahan:

Because they’re going to help them get through the tech… Not the tech.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Basically.

Catherine Shanahan:

What was I saying? Not technical. Clinical.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Clinical.

Catherine Shanahan:

Clinical part of it.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right.

Catherine Shanahan:

And they’re going to help you deal with your emotions or whatever happened in your past, or…

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes.

Catherine Shanahan:

Do that type of work with you. And that’s a lot of work.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh yeah it is. Like really doing the deep soul searching that you need. Of course, I’m not… And people to prescribe medication if you need it. A psychiatrist, that’s not who… So that’s why I do that 30 minute consult call. If I feel like you need, if I’m not your girl, I’m going to obviously send you to someone who can… I have great therapists that I know. And you have to be honest with yourself. I needed a therapist, I did not need a divorce coach. Right?

Karen Chellew:

So is that like a life manager, similar to a project manager? Whatever you need to accomplish you’d help them develop the steps.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, with your goals, goal settings. Yes.

Karen Chellew:

Okay.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah, like goal setting. Like here’s what we’re going to do today. I do a list of questions, we work on from one to 10 where do you think your… That kind of thing.

Karen Chellew:

Yeah, so you help them be independent as they move along.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

Without having to rely on their situational circumstances and so forth.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right, like I help with co-parenting, that kind of thing. I hope I’m not offending anybody that’s a dating coach or a divorce coach. I don’t mean to minimize what we do. I love it, I love my job, I love working with people and I’m super positive too. So I feel like if someone’s feeling down I can cheer them along, I’m like a cheerleader. But I’m definitely not a therapist.

Karen Chellew:

Well I don’t think that you’re… I mean, if you’re hurting anyone’s feelings that’s unfortunate because what you’re doing is you’re really just laying it out there, the difference. That’s a common question because of course when we handle the financial picture, and when we do their portrait, there’s a lot of unknowns that become very known when it comes to their finances. And after that they need help dealing with their life afterwards-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah, totally.

Karen Chellew:

So people need to know who do you go to first and then who do you go to next.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right and it’s expensive too.

Karen Chellew:

It is expensive.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

And you have to budget in what’s going to work for you and you have to get the most out of it.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Absolutely, you’re not going to spend $175 an hour with a therapist and then another blah blah blah with me, and then another blah blah blah. I mean, can you imagine? That’s [inaudible 00:13:09].

Karen Chellew:

Well that’s kind of like going to the dentist and they say you need all this work, and their goal is to have white perfect teeth. Well if you had the budget to support that, everybody would do that. But to your point, most people do not so you break it down into pieces.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Little bits.

Catherine Shanahan:

So I know that you’re an expert with dating after divorce.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Ah, I love it. That’s my favorite, everyone should come to me.

Catherine Shanahan:

And I know that a lot of people get very anxious and they want to start dating, and they’re ready to go and work. There are a lot of people that are just dependent on the relationships, they feel like that’s what makes them happy and maybe it is, I don’t know. I’ve never been that person but maybe that’s what’s true. How do you help them know if they’re ready?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh my gosh, first of all I’m very strict. I’m super strict with my clients. Some of them appreciate it and some of them don’t, and I’m very up front. I don’t let them settle, which I think they like that because I know that especially after you’re going through a divorce and you’re feeling like you’re ready, you’re super ready. You want to get out there and you want to get on those apps. It’s a totally different ballgame. I start by making a list of non-negotiables, I call them non-negotiables. We sit down and I send them all the stuff and I’m like, “Look, take the time to really make this list of things that you will not settle for.” Now I’m not talking about blonde hair, blue eyes and blah blah blah, what they look like. I’m talking about the deep soul-searching stuff.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Sometimes they’ll get back to me in like 15 minutes. They’re like, “But this is…” I’m like, “No, no, no, no. You didn’t do the work. I’m talking about like…” And I hold them to this list. If they say they’ll only date someone that lives within a five mile radius, to give you an example. So I’m like, “Okay now I’m telling you, when you come back to me and you find someone on Match and he lives an hour away, I’m going to hold you to this five mile radius.” Right? I have a client who calls me up and she’s like, “No, no, no, I found this guy and he lives an hour away and I know it’s…” And I’m like, “Uh-uh, no, no, no.” Right?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And they’re mad at me, they’re screaming, “No, no, I’m going to try it.” I’m like, “Go ahead, try it.” Because if you start with something that you know already you don’t want in a relationship, you don’t want to date long distance for example, and you already put yourself in that position that it’s not going to… Do you see what I’m saying?

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah, you’re setting yourself up to fail.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

You’re setting this up for failure, you’re setting yourself up for failure. I’m not going to let you do that. Right? So I’m going to hold you to it.

Catherine Shanahan:

Well can you tell that client to come back to us and we’ll see if they can afford to move?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Exactly. That’s my point. But you know those kind of things like a non-smoker, or even if it’s a religion or whatever.

Karen Chellew:

No kids.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

No kids, exactly. I have clients who say to me, “No, no, no, I will not date a guy with kids.” Then they find someone on Match that’s really gorgeous or whatever, blah blah blah. “He has a three year old, it’s fine.” And I’m like, “Girl, girl. No, it is not fine honey.” And they tell me, “Well it didn’t work and it’s because…” I’m like, “It didn’t work because it was never going to work.”

Catherine Shanahan:

Right, right, good. Yeah, I like that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That’s how I… You can’t fit a square peg in a round hole. You can beat it all you want, it is not going to work.

Catherine Shanahan:

Exactly.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

My next book, I just signed for my third book, it is about dating and I’m so excited. I’m so excited.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

[crosstalk 00:16:50].

Catherine Shanahan:

I experienced the Match.com when I first got divorced. It always amazed me the people that would show up. One guy showed up and I was with a girlfriend of mine. She came with me, she sat at a different table. He literally said that he put his brother’s photo on his Match. It wasn’t even him. Looked nothing like it. We’re like, “Are you kidding?” He’s said, “Yeah, I used my brother’s photo.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I can’t even, I just can’t. So my whole thing with-

Karen Chellew:

What about dating someone who is not divorced, even though they’re separated? I’m sure you’ve run into that a lot.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Okay, I have very strong feelings about that, very strong. So this is the problem. In North Carolina you have to be separated for a year before you can actually file.

Karen Chellew:

South Carolina too.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Okay, right. So we do a lot of that here. We do a lot of dating while you’re separated. So it’s a fine line. In North Carolina we’re okay with that because you’re separated and everyone dates. But in some circumstances we have something called alienation of affection. So technically in North Carolina you can sue, you can follow this really quick, you can actually sue the person that your spouse cheats on you with. Does that make sense? For a large sum of money, $85,000.

Catherine Shanahan:

Wow.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, you have to be real careful of… You have to sign stuff that says you can actually date during your separation period.

Karen Chellew:

Yeah, the couple signs… makes that agreement?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, yes. So like if someone comes to me and says, “I’m fine with dating people who are separated,” I’m like, “Okay, I’m glad you’re fine with it but how bout your spouse?”

Karen Chellew:

Well in South Carolina, that’s a state that if you date during that year of separation it’s considered cheating.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right.

Karen Chellew:

So you would lose your own alimony if you were an alimony candidate. So every state’s different.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes. You got to be real careful.

Karen Chellew:

Just avoid it in every state and we don’t have to worry about this.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Exactly, exactly. Let’s just wait. And that’s the thing, a year’s a long time to not date when you… That’s the whole point. So it is one of those things. For me-

Catherine Shanahan:

Plus you’re working on getting healthy and independent.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah, yeah. What’s wrong with that? Let’s do that.

Catherine Shanahan:

Get your affairs in order.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes.

Karen Chellew:

I guess the question would be is that person you’re dating emotionally available to you if they’re just separated.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah, that’s the thing. And also I have a really big belief that the first relationship out of the gate for either party is really never going to… People are like, “She’s crazy.” It’s never going to work, that relationship is never going to happen. Everyone’s like, “You’re wrong, I’m fine, he loves me.” I’m like, “Okay, I’ll see you in three months.”

Karen Chellew:

I’ve said that too, I’ve said that to clients of ours.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I believe it. And 99% of the time I hear back from that person and they’re like, “You were right. Why didn’t you tell me?” I’m like, “I did. I did.” I never want to say, “I told you so,” but I did. Yeah, I just never-

Karen Chellew:

What about just going out with the opposite sex or the same sex just for companionship and putting it out there, “I’m not into a relationship but I’m definitely creating new relationships, maybe not a forever”-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Well here’s how my whole stance right now, since I’ve started actually doing dating coaching, my whole stance has changed. I really believe that dating… I tell my clients to, “Lower your dating expectations.” If everyone thought about dating like you just said, if we all thought about going on dates as meets, instead of saying, “I’m going on a date with…” or, “I have a date from Match.” “I have a meet.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I tell my clients, “Look, no more dates. They’re going to be 15 to 20 minutes and you’re not going to care about what you’re wearing. We’re not going to worry about getting our hair done for five hours, or how much makeup we’re wearing, or where we’re going for dinner. We’re going to go to Starbucks or we’re going to go for drinks for 15 minutes, or meet at the park for ice cream. I don’t care if you’re wearing a baseball hat, I couldn’t care less if you’re wearing stretch pants. You’re going to go on a meet and it’s going to be 15 minutes long. That’s it, no expectations, go for a meet and have fun, and smile, and be fun and just have a good time, and no more negative Nelly, because no one wants that. And then, guess what? If you don’t like the guy, what have you lost? Zero. You’ve lost 15 minutes of your time and a baseball hat. Right? Who cares?”

Karen Chellew:

Exactly.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right? So if you lower your expectations and if you don’t make it such a big damn deal, if he catfishes you who cares, it was 15 minutes of your time. All this texting for three weeks before a date, for God’s sakes. My clients don’t do that, I say no. If you-

Catherine Shanahan:

I love that. A friend of mine would say, “You can’t respond yet. You have to wait so many hours or you can’t do this. Don’t call back yet because they’ll think you’re too anxious.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

None of that. I’m going to tell you this. No games, no games with me. No games, nope. I don’t believe in any of that.

Karen Chellew:

So you say no texting at all.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I say, “You know what? If you meet someone and you start talking, and you have a connection, and you like each other, you make a date for that week. If you’ve texted longer than a week, no. There’s no reason, there’s something wrong. If he’s texting you for weeks on end and you’re FaceTimimg or whatever and he wants… There’s a reason. He’s talking to multiple women and that’s not your person.”

Karen Chellew:

Right.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

So a week, you make the date, you go meet, you have coffee, and guess what? If he’s not your person, maybe he has a friend that is.

Catherine Shanahan:

That’s what I like, you never know. It’s networking.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

You never know. It’s networking.

Catherine Shanahan:

It’s networking dating.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

There you go. And that’s the thing, it’s just about lowering the expectations and having a good time, and that’s it.

Karen Chellew:

Absolutely.

Catherine Shanahan:

Well it takes the pressure off of yourself.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh my gosh! Totally, totally.

Catherine Shanahan:

Right? Yeah and what about when do you involve your children, what is your opinion on that?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

You don’t want to know. Believe me. My clients are like, “what are you talking about?” As far as I’m concerned, my boyfriend and I have been together three and a half, almost four years and our kids have never met.

Karen Chellew:

Still?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Uh-huh. So I don’t believe in blending families. Did you know that?

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

No I didn’t know that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah. So my kids have met my boyfriend, Jim, they love him. I’ve met his kids. Our kids know about each other but there’s no reason. Unless there’s a ring on your finger and you’re getting married, why?

Catherine Shanahan:

What if you never get married and you stay like that forever?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That’s fine. You know what, here’s the thing. I just feel especially…and its different if they little. If they’re two and five and seven and six, but until you literally know that this is your person. Your kids have been through a divorce, the chances of you staying with this person. I mean, really? What are the chances of you staying with this person? Are you going to marry them? If you know you’re going to marry this person, there’s a ring on your finger, then they can meet your kids. Like really or they can meet each other.

Karen Chellew:

You mean the kids meeting the kids?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Sure.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

[crosstalk 00:24:04]

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I say, I personally I don’t think your kids need to meet the person you are dating until at least eight months to a year.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

It’s another loss for them to go through.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Absolutely.

Karen Chellew:

I see that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s another loss. It’s another, “what’s the point?” It’s stress on them. I don’t say you have to hide them. I mean I think maybe six months to eight months you can say, “you’re dating, you met this”… whatever. But I don’t think there’s any reason, I mean unless you know this is a person that you really see yourself being with, I can tell you both my books I talk about it. Circumstances that my kids have met people in my life and I wish they’d never met them. I wish [crosstalk 00:24:42]… what a waste of time, energy, my boys will tell you, they’re like, “why? Why did I have to meet this person? He was a complete loser”. I mean-

Karen Chellew:

What about telling your children that you’re going to start dating again?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh.

Karen Chellew:

Or just not again but dating.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah. You know what I think it depends… it all depends on the age of the kid. And your relationship too-

Karen Chellew:

And your child because [crosstalk 00:25:09]

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, yes. In my opinion, I think your children want you happy. Don’t you think?

Catherine Shanahan:

I agree.

Karen Chellew:

Absolutely.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Your children want you happy and I think at the end of the day, if mom’s happy, kids are happy. I also think, and this is just in my opinion, when you start dating… as long as you’re happy dating and you can keep that anxiety down. Your kids pick up on your anxiety, so the minute you’re unhappy dating, then they know you are. Does that make sense?

Karen Chellew:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah

Karen Chellew:

Yeah

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s just one of those things, if you can keep it away from your kids and not involve them. They don’t want to hear about it. They don’t want to hear about this guy you went out with. Trust me. Even when people are like, “well I tell my daughter everything, she knows about the guys I go out with…” she doesn’t want to hear about it, she doesn’t. Not once. You think she does? She doesn’t. Now granted, my kids really like my boyfriend and my wusband really likes my boyfriend but it’s been four years. On the other hand, his ex-wife… does not. I’ve never seen her.

Catherine Shanahan:

Right.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I’ve never seen his ex-wife. We have met once, she wants nothing to do with me. His kids don’t really… it depends on the relationship, right?

Karen Chellew:

Right.

Catherine Shanahan:

I’m guessing she doesn’t call him wusband.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

No she does not.

Karen Chellew:

That’s hilarious.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

She doesn’t call him. It just depends on… right?

Catherine Shanahan:

It’s the dynamic of the situation, it’s very difficult. Like I said, each child is different. I remember asking my son if he was ready for me to date. And I remember asking him once, just don’t date anyone like dad’s dating, someone that they didn’t like. And I was thinking, I would never date someone that my kids didn’t like. That wouldn’t be good to my kids because my kids are my priority. But then I remember asking them, “how much do you want me to tell you?” My daughter was at FSU, so she was fine. He was home but I was like, “how much do you want me to tell you?”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And what did he say?

Catherine Shanahan:

“No, not much.” But my daughter, she wanted to know more. So it will just depend on, everyone’s different. You have to respect that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And they want you happy, right?

Karen Chellew:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Catherine Shanahan:

Exactly.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I think they want to hear the happy stuff but like my Zack will tell you, “I do not, mom, this is not my… don’t tell me.” And I’m like, “but I have no one to talk to” and he’s like, “not me mom, it’s not going to be me.” But then again my boyfriend and Zack will text about shoes, so it’s cute. Like you know, I’m happy they’re happy.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah it is. That’s good, that’s really good. Yeah. So I took I the next step, I got remarried. So-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh, I love it.

Catherine Shanahan:

I got remarried a year and a half ago.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Did you?

Catherine Shanahan:

My kids love him, so yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I’m so happy. Yay.

Catherine Shanahan:

It is exciting but it is a difficult task when you’re going through it. And women who are going through the divorce, especially we deal with a lot of women, [inaudible 00:28:02] women. So they’re financially fine, they’re going to be okay. Especially when they go through our process they really get the full detail of what their financial situation looks like. And they’ve made this decision, we can always make a suggestion but they make the decisions, right? So they feel really empowered, believe it or not, at the end of the process, financially. They’ve created a better story for themselves, financially speaking.

Catherine Shanahan:

So now though they just have a hard time going to that next step because they’re lonely. They’ve been in lonely marriages, they don’t have anything bad to say about their spouses but it’s been pretty loveless and they’re ready to move on. They don’t have to worry about finances. But I always get so worried that they going to make these quick decisions without a coach helping them to say, “no…” I love how you have the questions.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah.

Catherine Shanahan:

We’re going to stick to these and I’m sure there’s compromise in there.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Of course.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

[crosstalk 00:28:58]

Catherine Shanahan:

And how about helping them fill out their profile and all of that, do you work with them with that?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I love it. I usually write them.

Karen Chellew:

Aw that’s great.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I love it

Catherine Shanahan:

That’s really good.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Being a writer, it’s so fun for me. To live vicariously through someone, I love it. And it’s funny because my boyfriend is an amazing writer too and his profile, it was incredible. So when I have male clients, I-

Catherine Shanahan:

Is that how you met?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

We did. We met on Match.

Catherine Shanahan:

Oh that’s awesome.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And actually his profile I’m putting in my next book. It was the funniest… it was the best, I don’t think I looked at his pictures. His profile was so good, he’s just a funny guy. But yeah-

Catherine Shanahan:

That’s awesome.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah. It’s just so hard, this whole dating after divorce. The whole… just everything-

Karen Chellew:

It’s a lot.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

To navigate it’s really tough.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And married people don’t get it, they don’t get it.

Catherine Shanahan:

That’s true-

Catherine Shanahan:

[crosstalk 00:29:54]

Karen Chellew:

I’m sorry…

Jennifer Hurvitz:

No go ahead.

Catherine Shanahan:

Karen, what were you saying?

Karen Chellew:

Oh I was just going to say, I’ve been remarried for 20 years. My kids were really small 11 and seven, when I decided to get remarried-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And how did it go?

Karen Chellew:

I’d been divorced for three years, maybe four years. But in any event, we did a practice. We said, “all right, we’ll move in for three months. All three of us have to like it or we’re moving back out and I’m not getting married.” So we moved in for three months, everybody had a unanimous, “okay” and then we got married.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I love that. Did he have kids too?

Karen Chellew:

No.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh that’s [inaudible 00:30:28].

Karen Chellew:

We all had to agree.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That’s the best.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

[crosstalk 00:30:31]

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I love that, that’s my favorite blending story. If I could find… I tell my clients, “just find a guy without kids, you’ll be fine.”

Karen Chellew:

Yeah.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

Because there could be a lot of complications, even though they think they may love him and adore him. Being under the same roof and in that home, we all has to share the same bathroom…

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh my God.

Karen Chellew:

So my daughter had to go every other second, so …

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s just hard, isn’t it? It’s so hard. The whole thing is just…

Karen Chellew:

Yeah it’s a lot.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s hard.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah. How long do you think it takes somebody to move… transition through?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh my gosh. Through the whole-

Catherine Shanahan:

Be ready for a relationship?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I think…you mean before they start dating?

Catherine Shanahan:

Or even get serious with someone.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I think, you know what? I don’t know. I think everyone is so different and everyone yells at me all the time. I wish … I tell my coaching clients before they start dating, to give themselves a year. But no one listens to me and I don’t listen to my… people told me a year and I was like, “oh you’re crazy, I’m not waiting a year.” I wish I would of waited a year. I was so … oh my gosh. I kicked myself, I was so emotionally not ready. I made the biggest mistake ever, I dated the worst guy on the planet. He was awful, my kids were put through torture. My wusband looks at me now and he’s like, “do you believe you did that?” And I was like, “what about you and that girl you dated?” And he’s like, “I know, do you believe we did that? Like she was just as awful.” We both were like, “what were we thinking.” It’s just woulda, coulda, shoulda. We wish but you can’t take it back, you grow through what you go through? Or is it you go through what you grow through?

Catherine Shanahan:

Oh I like that.

Karen Chellew:

I like that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

You know you have to learn from your mistakes.

Catherine Shanahan:

Right.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And I wish some of my clients would listen. But they listen to me when I say, go to you guys. So that’s good.

Karen Chellew:

And you know what, we’ve come across a lot of situations where, when they start dating they actually being preyed upon for financial reasons-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That was me.

Karen Chellew:

Like they want to be… they need a loan or they need money-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah. The vultures, the vultures.

Karen Chellew:

And it’s all a setup and it’s fake people, usually the military.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Always military, yes. Usually military. And especially on, OkCupid.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

[crosstalk 00:32:42]

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I tell my clients to stay off of… I’m sorry but OkCupid is-

Karen Chellew:

And Facebook

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh and Facebook dating?

Karen Chellew:

Facebook is huge.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

On the Facebook dating app? Because there is a Facebook dating-

Karen Chellew:

No not the Facebook dating app, just Facebook.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Okay. You know where I find, is really… this is so crazy, LinkedIn is a huge dating pool now.

Karen Chellew:

Wow.

Catherine Shanahan:

I know I get all these requests and I don’t [inaudible 00:33:05]-

Karen Chellew:

I don’t think they’re real people.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I don’t either but that’s funny. I can tell you guys stories, I mean it’s just crazy, in my next book… the guys that I went out with. And the worst part is they Googled my ex, they Googled my wusband.

Catherine Shanahan:

Oh my gosh.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s disgusting. I had a guy once that took the bill at the end of the night and slid it across the table and tapped on it and said, “you got this.” And I was like, “excuse me?” He was like, “I Googled your ex.”

Catherine Shanahan:

Oh my gosh!

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And I was like, “you know what?” I remember I used to go to the same… Dean & DeLuca because the bartender there would take care of me, he would protect me. And he knew and he looked at me and he goes, “no.” He took it and he’s like, “I got this, you need to leave.”

Karen Chellew:

Wow.

Catherine Shanahan:

Wow. Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

Guardian angels.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah. It’s awful, what we [crosstalk 00:33:53].

Karen Chellew:

There’s a lot of it out there.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

This person assumed that because my ex worked at X, Y and Z that I had all this… that my alimony must be whatever… he knew nothing but he just assumed. It’s disgusting, it’s disgusting!

Karen Chellew:

Yeah. It is disgusting and a lot of people fall prey to that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s awful. Yep.

Karen Chellew:

Yeah

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

So luckily- [crosstalk 00:34:14]

Karen Chellew:

So if they asking you for money or they sending you off money or if they ever ask you about your financials, think about it as a red flag, ladies.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, huge red flag. Huge.

Karen Chellew:

A lot of times I’ll say another red flag is, have you met them? And so many times, it’s “no they don’t live close, they’re in the military. They only coming home in six months.” And by then they’ve already asked for money. They’ve sent the [inaudible 00:34:39] to supportive emails and so forth. Yeah, it’s awful.

Catherine Shanahan:

Well I think that’s a really good point, when you feel like you’re… if you’re listening right now and you feel like you’re in a position where you couldn’t afford to get some help. And you just turned to the internet and you meant somebody, who is not really there for you. You haven’t met, if you’re hearing any of these red flags. It might be the time to really re-budget yourself and get a coach, like Jennifer who can be your Devil’s advocate at times. We all need that, right?

Catherine Shanahan:

Get your life in order and find where the void is because sometimes it might not just be another person. Maybe you just need to do something different with yourself. Even as simple as getting a new hairstyle, I always say. Maybe start with these little things but have someone like… this is where you would be great for someone, who’s just feeling like there’s nowhere to turn. And it just needs somebody to work as a girlfriend but who is an advisor-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That’s what I tell my- [crosstalk 00:35:41]

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I’m like a thinking partner-

Catherine Shanahan:

And don’t be ashamed of yourself if you’ve made these mistakes already.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh yeah. No, no.

Catherine Shanahan:

Because so many people… I mean we’re all sitting here talking about things that we’ve done, right? And there are a lot of people feel like they’re in it, the rabbit hole and they’re not going to get out. You can still get out.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I had a guy on OkCupid, that I talked to and talked to. And we went offline and I gave him my phone number. This will make everyone feel better… and he texted me and then a couple minutes later, he went dark. Like done and I had his name and I Googled him. He used a dead person’s profile.

Karen Chellew:

Oh geez.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

[inaudible 00:36:17]

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah, that’s sick.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And he had already gone in into my bank. He used my name, my address. He must have seen something on… like a picture with my address on it. He spoke like… I don’t, you don’t even know how. Oh my gosh, I had the FBI, I had OkCupid. It was just absolute … people [inaudible 00:36:35].

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

So don’t feel bad, never feel bad.

Karen Chellew:

You have to be so careful.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah. Right.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

So it happens to the best of us. It can happen to anyone.

Catherine Shanahan:

Hind sight is always the best sight, right?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That’s right. That’s right, yeah.

Karen Chellew:

Oh Jennifer, I’m sure you’re just so valuable to so many people.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh thank you, thank you. I love helping, so I love what I do. It’s fine, let your girlfriends know.

Karen Chellew:

It’s needed. It’s so needed and it’s nice to go to someone who is authentic, who stands behind her mistakes. Who’s willing to share those and be vulnerable about it. Because again, we always learn from people who have gone through it. I think the best… I’m a learner like that. So I think it’s great that you’re out there for them, so happy.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Thank you, thank you.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Thanks for having me guys.

Karen Chellew:

You said you have a… how do your consults work?

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I have a 30 minute free consult. Anyone can find me on my website, you just send me a little email through my website, jenniferhurvitz.com. And you setup a 30 minute consult and I can pretty much in 15 minutes tell you… you’re either hanging out with me or I’ll send you somewhere like, to you. I send a lot of people… I say you need someone bigger than me or you need a therapist or I’m probably not the right thing or when you’re ready to date, come back. Yeah I end up sending a lot of people and-

Catherine Shanahan:

Thank you for not being a vulture.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Aw, no I don’t. And sometimes people reach out to me. I get a lot of married people because they’re stuck in their marriages and they’re not sure if they should stay or they should go. Because that was my second book, “a divorce coaches guide to staying married.” So people oscillate and they don’t know if they should take that leap and I kind of… that’s kind of my jam too. So-

Catherine Shanahan:

We get that too because they’re afraid to see what their financial lives looks like afterwards or they need to know that. Or they just don’t know what their life looks like now. They know they’ve been living a good life because their materialistic things are being met. But they’re not really sure, so a lot of times we get a lot of people that come to us to get their portrait done and then they decide.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh that’s a great idea. Oh I should send them… because I never know. That’s a huge part of it, I know that a lot of-

Karen Chellew:

Its very clarifying.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

They’re so scared and most people, I say to them, “well what are the top three reasons why you want to stay.” And they say, “my children, my financial and I feel guilty.” And I’m like… and that’s when I should say, let me send them to you.

Catherine Shanahan:

You know what’s interesting about that, if you ask them further… you’ll say, “well what makes you think financially you can’t afford it?” “Well my husband said, I won’t get his pension.” “My husband said, I won’t be able to afford this.” Or “my husband said…” so these women are living in fear. I shouldn’t just say women because it goes the other way as well. So they think, “oh my gosh, I won’t get any retirement…” we have something saved for my own retirement, I have so many people when you go through their IRA’s, “oh my IRA only has 12,000 in it because we put it all into his… so now I don’t have one, and he says he’s keeping his and I’m going to keep mine.” Well no, that not the way it works.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

And you’re like, “uh-uh”

Catherine Shanahan:

So when they come through and get their financial portrait done, they get to see really what their household looks like.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right, right.

Catherine Shanahan:

And then what it would look like possibly afterwards.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Right.

Catherine Shanahan:

And then they make a decision based on that.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

On the facts.

Karen Chellew:

And then sometimes they’re going to say, “I can do this” and other times it’s, “I am not signing up for that, I’m going right to marriage counseling.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

“I’m going to fix this fast.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

“Ah, no way. Thank you, yeah.”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

It’s funny because I was just really lucky because you know, I was horrified. I was really scared and I remember looking at my wusband and saying, “I’m scared, I’m horrified.” And he was like, “I got you.” So I was really lucky-

Karen Chellew:

Yeah that’s great.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I cry when I think about it because I was horrified and we were in mediation and I remember looking at him and going, “I don’t know, Mark, like where am I going to be?” And he’s like, “Jen, breathe I got you.” And to this day we are just such good friends. So-

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Karen Chellew:

That’s awesome.

Catherine Shanahan:

And that’s really good and there’s hope for everybody but if you’re listening to that we still want you to get your agreement reviewed before you sign it. Because often times-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That’s not the case… that is not the case.

Catherine Shanahan:

Well your wusband sounds fabulous-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

He’s great.

Catherine Shanahan:

But often times there are promises made that are quickly broken-

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Sure.

Catherine Shanahan:

As soon as the agreement is signed, so…

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes, yes… oh God.

Catherine Shanahan:

And again, we say this all the time… listen, use your clarity. You make the decision based on that and if you want to give that all away, or you want to give up on that. It’s your divorce, go ahead and do it but do it with the financial clarity that you need. Not by emotions or someone promising you something.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

But wait a minute, don’t a lot of women you find… I know that we have to go because we’ve been talking so long, I’m sorry…

Catherine Shanahan:

We can talk forever.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

But don’t a lot of women, you feel they get to the table and they’re like, “I don’t care, just give it. I want to get out of here…”

Karen Chellew:

Yes.

Catherine Shanahan:

Yes.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

“Just take it” why? Why? Why?

Karen Chellew:

It’s the same thing happens, twice.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh no, no.

Catherine Shanahan:

They’ve gotten to a point, for example someone called last week. She did her consult and I said, “you know”… Karen mentioned earlier, people think they’ve got it together and we’re all about mediating and getting your resolution between… avoiding the court system. But, “okay let me ask you a few questions.” Well she literally was signing away on $250,000.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh my God!

Catherine Shanahan:

The husband called and he was really mad because Karen was telling him, “well this is what we do.” Blah blah blah, you may have an agreement but there’s some open-ended questions and he probably scared her and so she’s going to sign off. And I’ll tell you this, next year she’ll be regre… not even next year. But she’s going to regret it. But what happens is they lose patience, which is why we have an article on patience. Everybody wants to [inaudible 00:42:11] and say, “oh gosh, I hope this lasts forever. I love the divorce phase.” Everybody says, “I need this done, it’s and emergency. I need it done.” As if it’s the last one out there. But it’s not the case, you need to take your time and know how this will impact you. And if you know it’s going to impact you then, okay you made the choice and you can live with the consequence. But I feel like your job, Jennifer would be so much harder for somebody who is living with regret.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Oh yeah.

Catherine Shanahan:

To move on. Regret that they didn’t take this opportunity for themselves to find out what their financial life was really going to look like. Because when you have regret, it’s so hard to move forward.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yes. And you know, a lot of people feel like too, they think that they’re going to be fine because they didn’t do the work. They’re like, “no, no I know I’m good. Financially I’m fine, I can’t imagine I’m going to have a problem.” And then they sign, and then they’re like, “Oh, if only I would have.” Right?

Catherine Shanahan:

Yeah.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

“If only I would have seen.” Because now I’m sitting here going and I’m like, “well why didn’t you?” You want to…

Catherine Shanahan:

Right.

Karen Chellew:

And it’s really all about that financial clarity. I was speaking with someone last week and they’re close but they’re still like probably, $100,000 apart. And I said, “you have a choice, based on your budget and based on what this is you’re going to be fine. You can maintain your lifestyle, you’re going to be fine. Yes you deserve this extra money, you get to decide now, do I want to spend another $10,000 in legal fees to get this and another year, probably of stress to get to court. You get to decide, either way you’re going to win. You’re either going to win emotionally or you’re going to win by getting the money that’s coming to you, it’s clear and cut here.” So when you have that level of clarity, that you can just say, “I know my budget, I’ve got my lifestyle. I can do this. But you know what? It’s mine so I’m going to take it, I’m going to invest that extra money.” It’s less emotional because it’s all right there in front of you and that’s just so valuable. Because either decision she makes is perfect.

Karen Chellew:

[inaudible 00:44:25]

Catherine Shanahan:

So get your financial portrait out there, ladies and gentleman. Make sure you have clear decisions and then if you just need… that you feel like you need someone to bounce it off of, that’s why Jennifer is perfect for that. We all feel like we always need somebody to talk to make a decision for yourself all the time and it is nice to have someone to balance it off of and just get a real honest opinion and that’s why having you as a coach and a cheerleader gives people the momentum they need to move forward [crosstalk 00:44:57] without any financial clarity because you won’t be able to afford her.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I tell people I’m their thinking partner.

Catherine Shanahan:

Great, I love that. You’re a thinking partner. That’s really awesome.

Karen Chellew:

You’re like taking them over the bridge to be independent and dating, it’s so great because that’s so scary. I have this image of a person just holding their box of stuff, “okay got it, now what?”

Jennifer Hurvitz:

That was me. I was like, “where am I going? Where am I going?” And my poor babies behind me, they were like, “mom! What are we…” and I’m like, “come on guys, we’ll be fine…” it’s scary, it’s scary.

Catherine Shanahan:

It is.

Catherine Shanahan:

[crosstalk 00:45:37]

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Everyone’s going to be okay. I feel like everyone-

Karen Chellew:

[crosstalk 00:45:37] before you get married again. It’s never bad to do your financial portrait. This way you have an idea of what you’re going in with.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yep.

Karen Chellew:

To prepare.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Yeah maybe I should come see you guys. I have a financial planner but he yells at me all the time, “What are you doing Jen?” And I’m like, “I don’t know, I just…” He calls me, I ignore his calls.

Karen Chellew:

Aw that’s great. You’re hilarious. Well Jen thank you for being on with us today, it’s truly been fun and helpful and informative and I’m sure invaluable to so many listeners.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I hope so.

Karen Chellew:

So, thank you.

Karen Chellew:

[crosstalk 00:46:14] and keep us posted on everything that’s happening with you.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

I will and thank you, so much you guys. Have a great day.

Catherine Shanahan:

Thank you. You too, lets do it again soon.

Jennifer Hurvitz:

Absolutely.