High-Conflict Divorce Strategy: Stay Calm, Stay Smart, Stay Financially Clear

0:01

Welcome to WeChat Divorce, hosted by Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA.

Each episode we sit down with divorce professionals and industry experts to provide insights and frank discussions about real people, real situations, and real divorce to help you achieve your best life post divorce.

0:40

High conflict spouses thrive in chaos.

The moment you replace chaos with strategy, the power dynamic shifts very fast.

Today we’re diving into the business approach to divorce that protects your assets, your peace, and your future.

0:59

Welcome back to WeChat Divorce, brought to you by My Divorce Solution.

I’m Karen Shalu, Legal Liaison, helping you navigate the legal complexities of divorce with clarity and confidence.

And I’m Catherine Shanahan, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and your partner in long term financial security.

1:18

At MD’s, we believe that preparation isn’t just about documents and numbers.

It’s about strategy, mindset and understanding the full financial impact of your decisions.

So today’s conversation is 1 every woman and or man and a high conflict or high stakes divorce needs to hear.

1:39

We’re sitting down with Courtney Harkness, a divorce coach, a divorce strategist, and the creator of the Divorce is a Business Deal framework.

Courtney is known for helping successful women and a few men protect their peace, their power and their assets, especially when divorcing narcissistic or a high conflict partner.

1:58

You know, we say in men, right?

Even in our business, and I’m not sure about hers yet, but in our business, we, we were set out to just help women, right?

Remember that 10 years, Uh huh, women helping women.

And then over the year, it was always for the longest time, 70% women, maybe even 80% women for the longest time.

2:20

And now, I don’t know.

I would say we’re maybe 60, Forty, 60% women, 40.

Percent women, yeah.

‘Cause we still have a lot of men who say you know your website when that I’ve gone through our process and love our process, you know, your website still seems fairly women centric.

2:39

You know, we had a recent engagement where both spouses hired us, both business owners and I on the launch call.

I had not met thus the male spouse before.

And so he comes in, you know, we’re talking through all the logistics, what our next steps, everything we do on a launch call.

3:02

And I could tell he was a little tentative and we just engaged in the conversation.

But at the end of the conversation, he said, before we go, I just want you to know that I was very tentative about this relationship.

I was thinking that, you know, the founders are divorced women, So what could I expect?

3:20

And he said, I am convinced and I appreciate that what you say you do is going to be delivered.

In my case, just by virtue of this conversation, I see the transparency, the accountability, and we’re just going to be clear about our decisions.

3:36

And he’s just said, I appreciate that and that, you know, just as a testament of who we are and what NDS really is committed to delivering to anyone who hires us.

Yeah, that’s so true.

And also if you listening to this episode and if she talks mostly about women who are married to narcissist men, we know there are narcissistic women out there.

3:59

So we’ll just hear what she has to say and we’ll take it from there.

And if you feel like you’re constantly reacting instead of leading your divorce, you’ll want to listen closely to what comes next.

Courtney, welcome to WeChat Divorce.

4:15

We are thrilled to have you with us here today.

Courtney Harkness is a divorce strategist and certified divorce coach who teaches successful women and a few selectmen how to treat divorce like a business deal.

After Co founding and running a private equity backed company with her ex-husband, Courtney took her 25 years of business experience and applied it to the divorce world.

4:38

Today, she empowers clients to make strategic decisions, create leverage and protect their peace and assets through her signature Divorce as a Business Deal framework.

She specializes in high conflict dynamics and helps clients build a comeback story on the other side of divorce.

4:58

I’m very much looking to our conversation today because you very much aligned with the My Divorce Solution approach.

But let’s start at the beginning.

What inspired you, Courtney, to take such a unique path from running a company with your ex-husband to becoming a divorce strategist?

5:15

It is kind of a winding journey or it has been.

So I’ve been a corporate executive and business owner for the past 25 years and several years ago I went through a high conflict divorce from my ex-husband.

We were married for 21 years and we had Co founded a company together in 2016.

5:35

So we had been running a company together for the better part of eight years when we decided to split up.

And after going through that process, which was, I’m sure you can imagine, financially complex, drawn out, and it was obviously not a fun process to go through, I started to look at the negotiations that we were doing as more of a business deal.

5:58

So that’s not how most people enter into divorce when they’re thinking about it because it’s so fraught with emotion.

So as we got further down this path, I realized, you know, if I can separate the emotional piece from the strategy piece and just look at this like any other business deal I’ve done, you know, I’ve closed multi $1,000,000 deals with large publicly traded companies, I should be able to handle this.

6:21

And that was sort of the light bulb moment for me that enabled me to come out on the other side with, you know, my assets protected, but also my piece protected.

And it just occurred to me that even with a great divorce attorney and maybe a great therapist and a great network, I felt like there was a piece missing.

6:38

So that’s why I got certified as a divorce coach.

And I describe myself more as a divorce strategist because that’s the piece I focus on with my clients.

But I like to look at myself as the kind of missing link, the team quarterback maybe that a lot of people don’t have when they’re going through divorce.

6:55

So that’s what inspired me to start this coaching business and to start coaching successful women through divorce.

It’s good because you know, successful women have a hard time taking a back seat to anyone, right?

And they can’t put the emotions aside a lot of times because their lot brain is controlling them.

7:16

But the emotions seep in there, so it’s really hard.

To see it from a different angle.

It’s very difficult and I find the more successful the woman, the more difficult it is, quite frankly, to get them through divorce sometimes because they’re used to being a certain way in their professional lives.

7:33

And I do hear this from quite a few of my clients though, and successful women I talked to that they sometimes feel frozen and almost incompetent when it comes to this side of things.

And whereas in their work lives, they are superstars, they feel very inept and they feel overwhelmed and frozen.

7:50

I hear that all the time.

They don’t even know where to start.

They don’t know what to do because the emotional piece of it is so heavy.

So that’s why I focus on initially when I work with clients, I do focus on the emotional piece and I like to level set and stabilize first because I always say you can’t make any business decisions or strategic decisions from a place of emotion.

8:10

So let’s spend the first, you know, 3 or 4 sessions just talking through the emotional piece and getting, getting that kind of under control and giving them specific techniques to handle high conflict partners because I do specialize in high conflict.

So all of my clients are dealing with high conflict or narcissistic personalities, no question.

8:29

So giving them the tools to deal with partners like that helps them get into the mindset of, OK, now I can look at this like a business deal.

Yeah, we’ve also seen on the flip side, because, you know, we handle the financial piece of the process of getting the mortgage, getting them financially clear so they can make their decisions.

8:48

And I also the flip side where they want to give away everything just to be over with Harry so much, you know, they know they’re going to make money moving forward.

You know, everyone thinks men hate paying spousal support, but you should see the.

Women that have to pay.

I think they’re even angrier.

9:04

Right.

And what I want, you know, clients to to recognize or what I’m striving to do with them is I don’t want you to be 3 years down the road and turn around and say, I wish I had not done this.

And I have heard that from a lot of women who said I just wanted it to be over with.

9:21

I gave away XYZ because he’s the father of my children.

And I just wanted it to be done.

And I like to remind them, you know, divorce is not a time to be nice and there is no ROI on your kindness.

So the other side, if you look at what he or she is doing, they’re not trying to be nice.

9:40

They’re protecting their own interests.

And that doesn’t make you a bad person because you want to protect yourself financially.

Yeah, well, you could still be nice, but just don’t be silly, you know?

Don’t be silly about something because, you know, you’re not equalized a few years down the road.

9:56

Life is very different not even a few years, one year later.

Right.

It’s an extremely different place, correct?

Yeah.

And you can be nice, quote UN quote nice in the way you conduct yourself.

And I like to describe it as civil.

So we are going to conduct ourselves in a civil manner.

10:13

We’re not getting down into the mud.

I never advocate for that.

We are going to be calm and clear headed and speak to people in a professional, calm tone always.

But we’re not going to be nice in terms of giving away money or assets that we’re entitled to keep.

Exactly.

I like that I can stand behind that all day long.

10:32

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Catherine, what do you say?

Go ahead and take it.

Take what’s yours or what you negotiate, and if you want to give it back, we’ll help you back.

I’ll help you, I always say.

I’ll help you write the check to give it back.

10:47

And in the last 12 years, not one person asked me to help them write a check to give anything back.

Ever.

That is such a great point.

I’m going to borrow that if you don’t mind.

Like you could always, guys write them a check later next year if you feel guilty, you can give some of it back.

That’s such a great point.

11:02

Yeah, yeah.

And another approach, you know, is before you decide, and sometimes I hear you say, Courtney, people walk in the door and say they’ve already decided what they believe is the right transaction for their situation.

11:18

And so we like to say, just hold that thought, put it on pause, let’s get you financially prepared so you know your options and your financial impact and then decide if that still is your best proposal or if that’s still what you want to do.

11:36

Because we see a lot of people in those situations where because they’re entering the negotiations like that, they want to, they want to make everything OK.

Everything suffers from that point forward.

You get careless in the agreement, you get careless in the transaction.

11:55

Everybody thinks that we’re, you know, getting along.

So everything is going to be OK forever and ever and ever.

But what?

But, you know, to your point, get get, I like what you said, get level set and stabilize.

I’d like for you to talk a little bit more about that process.

12:11

Understand, have really good agreements and then you can, you know, you’re moving forward with clarity and that transaction holds for a very long time.

Right, that’s great advice.

I have two primary mantras that I use in my coaching.

12:29

Number one is your superpower is not reacting and #2 no sudden moves.

And that goes back to what you were just saying.

You know, we’re not going to jump into anything.

We’re not going to walk into it thinking I already know what I’m going to do here, let’s just quickly get it over with.

That would not align with my coaching philosophy.

12:46

So the emotional level set is where I teach.

Your superpower is not reacting.

And again, this is advice specific to a high conflict person and a toxic relationship where, you know, these are not amicable divorces.

So let me just be clear about that.

13:02

This advice pertains to, you know, I work primarily with women.

I do have some male clients.

I work primarily with women dealing with high conflict partners.

So the emotional piece is they are coming out of a marriage that has been an emotional roller coaster.

It has been very toxic.

13:18

They’re used to highs and lows.

There’s all kinds of terrible things that have gone on typically.

So they are useful to a back and forth with the spouse that’s a very, very emotionally charged.

They’re used to getting into it with them on a daily basis over texts or phone calls or in person or whatever it might be.

13:36

So I teach your superpower is not reacting because what a high conflict spouse wants is for you to react.

They want to get a rise out of you.

They want to trigger you.

They just want to stoke the fire.

You know, that’s entertainment to them.

So we’re not going to do that anymore.

And that is a very difficult actually thing for a lot of women to do because they feel like, well, but I want to answer him, especially successful career women, I want to, he’s not right.

13:59

So I want to prove my point or I have to answer this and I teach.

We really don’t.

Not everything deserves a response.

You know, we look at every single text or e-mail that comes in and say like, what is the actual question here?

What is the actual request here?

14:15

Is there a so legitimate reason for me to engage right now?

So I work very closely with them on teaching them exactly what to do.

So I mean, they’ll screenshot text and send them to me and say, what do I do?

Do I respond to this or not respond to it like that?

So the emotional piece is not being tied emotionally to that partner anymore.

14:33

And once once they can detach and get that level headed feeling where they really are calm, then we move into the business piece.

Then we look at start looking at the numbers.

So I have 3 phases that I work through Constance, stabilize, strategize, execute.

14:50

So we did the stabilization.

We’ve got your emotional part down.

Now we’re going into strategize and that’s where we would start working with financial partners and looking at the numbers and really understanding what is it that you own?

What is it that you’re, you know, looking to do?

If you don’t have a clear picture of what your financials are, you really can’t make any decisions.

15:08

So that’s kind of information gathering and strategizing.

What is it you’d like to get out of this?

What is your ideal walk away point?

What’s your ideal real scenario as a settlement?

What’s your worst case scenario, you know, and what’s your middle of the road that you would be willing to accept?

And then phase 3 is execute.

15:24

And this is where we’re engaging the attorney if they haven’t already or giving the green light to go ahead and, you know, contact the other attorney or sometimes the green light is to tell their spouse.

So I have worked with clients primarily before the spouse knows that they want a divorce and that in my opinion, if I can work with clients ahead of time, that’s probably the optimal situation because by the time they get to the part where they’re telling the spouse they want a divorce, they’ve already got all their ducks in a row.

15:53

And then the other way I work with clients is they’ve already decided to have a divorce and to get a divorce and now they’re coming to me for, you know, help and strategizing, getting the deal done.

So either way, yes, getting the emotional piece really under control 1st and then looking at it like a business deal, Those are the two primary things I do.

16:12

That was a very long winded answer.

Well, it really is in line with what we do.

And I ideally I would love for them to come to you first and stabilize and then we can help with the strategize please, because we, we don’t tell our clients what to do our role, our Cdfas do not invest our clients money where that we have no stake in the game, if you will.

16:32

But what we do is make sure they’re clear on what their cash flow is, what their needs are, what’s their lifestyle analysis.

And then we collect what they know about their marital state, whatever documents they can access.

And we help them access documents that they don’t think that they can access.

16:48

And then we can go through division scenarios, not telling them what they’ll get, but having a clear understanding of what some options are and what the impact of those options.

Then they can go execute as you say, you know, you know, ideally we, we like when people come when they’re just thinking divorce or they’re just about to start the process.

17:07

Because it does matter how you start.

It does matter the pathway that you seem to go down.

And I think a lot of times hiring that attorney and executing again, if you will, is not the first thing you do.

That is not the thing you do.

17:22

That’s very a very expensive way to go about getting a divorce and which is what most people do.

You’re right and messy.

It’s so messy, right?

And then not only that, but you’re not what high conflict people forget or mean spouses who’s dealing with a spouses high conflict When you trigger the execution before you’re prepared, you’re just pissing off the.

17:46

Other side and there’s.

Going to make.

It even messier for you.

It’s like launching a grenade.

Exactly, with no way to retrieve it, you can’t even retrieve it, right?

So if, if, if you go through Courtney’s process.

If you’re listening and you stabilize those emotions and let us get you financially prepared, then they can successfully move on to your next two steps.

18:07

Because then we’re out.

Like we need to get out, right?

We just want to stick in our zone right here.

But it really would.

Change how you go through the process and what your net result will.

Be.

Yeah, absolutely.

I have a whole master class that I just recorded actually on how to tell your high complex spouse you want a divorce because that was coming up so much in my coaching.

18:29

Like, now it’s time to tell them.

What do I do?

And it’s so critical how you approach it and how you tell them.

And one of the primary pieces of advice I give is do not let them know that you have been preparing because they will immediately see that as betrayal.

And you’re immediately going to trigger their defensive reaction.

18:48

And that’s, you know, a normal human reaction.

If someone came you and you realize they would be, you know, they were doing something behind your back, you would be defensive too.

And with a high conflict person, it’s times 1000.

So I really work with them on this is how you’re going to approach it.

This is how you tell them.

This is when you tell them these are the words that you use and this is what you do immediately after so as to not to trigger that hostile response.

19:10

So it is really important to set, I think the right tone and to go back to, you know, most people run to straight to the attorney, which is understandable.

And even the I work with a ton of attorneys and they will all say the same thing.

Like I like it when my clients have worked with you first, because by the time you bring them to me, they’re more, you know, I don’t want to maybe credible client.

19:30

Is that not the right term?

But that’s how they see them.

They’re more calm.

They’re ready to get to work.

They’re not going to burn through a bunch of time with the emotional phone calls and texts and emails.

And even though the attorney I’m sure is happy to be, you know, billing for that time, that’s really not what they want to be doing.

19:48

They have plenty of hours.

They can be billing for legal work.

They really don’t want to be your divorce coach.

So that’s why I think having a coach is important because I’ll help you figure out this is when you should call the attorney.

And this is when this would not be a good use of your funds to call the attorney right now, you know, So if it’s legal advice, yes.

20:06

I always have a running list with my clients of what they need to be asking the attorney and I always advise them like as we go through sessions, add that to your lawyer list and don’t reach out to them until you have a substantial stack of questions that could be handled in a 30 minute or one hour phone call.

That’s going to save you a lot of time and money versus sending them an e-mail every time you think about something.

20:25

Let’s keep that on our list unless it’s urgent.

We don’t.

We don’t go running through the attorney because that’s a very expensive way to handle divorce.

I know we say the same thing for reviewing, so I’m going to ask my attorney and I will say that’s a legal question, but you know, it’s not for an everyday Send them a question, compile those and then ask.

20:42

Yeah.

Yes, try to maximize the value of your resources.

All of your divorce professionals, you know, I really try to help them identify who do you need on your divorce team, why and when.

And so it’s like when are you engaging each professional, at which stage of the process?

21:01

And try to help them maximize the value of their, you know, professional resources.

You know, Courtney, you talked about people getting prepared for divorce.

There’s also that subset of people who they are in a high conflict divorce, but they don’t want to admit it.

21:20

Both spouses have agreed they want to mediate.

We have many of these.

Both spouses have agreed they want to mediate.

They do hire attorneys because their marital stays fairly complex, but as it because they’re not prepared.

As the litigation evolves, the relationship erodes and what they thought mediation was going to be, it’s not what it is because no one’s prepared.

21:46

And then litigation ensues because trust erodes, because then the only way they’re commuting communicating is through their attorney.

I, I would guess you have a whole handful or a whole subset of those clients as well.

22:03

And they’re, you know, hindsight then to them is, wow.

I wish I would have approached the mediation concept a little differently.

I wish I would have listened.

And I think when you say you know that level set and stabilize is getting yourself reset emotionally, that while you want to be collaborative and you want to mediate, you still have to take a position and you still have to say what you want based on what you know and what your options are.

22:33

Right.

I say the minute you decide you want a divorce, you have to accept you are no longer on the same team.

So there really is no trust and we need to get rid of that fantasy of the we trust each other.

It’s just not realistic.

22:50

So you’re no longer on the same team.

You have to remember that you can’t show this person all your cards anymore.

This is just, it’s a very hard truth to accept, especially when you’ve been married for a very long time.

So my clients have been married 2025, thirty years.

And this person is somebody that they went to with every major decision, right?

23:06

Every time they talk about finances or buying a house or doing something, they would go to the spouse and talk about it.

And so this is a very unnatural feeling to kind of keep your cards close to the vest and not tell them what you’re thinking.

If you go into divorce with a high conflict person expecting them to do the right thing, you’re going to be very disappointed.

23:26

So I think you should assume going into every divorce that you are about to see the worst version of this person.

And it’s not going to be the person you were married to or you thought you were who the person who you thought you were married to.

Because I see that all the time.

23:41

They get surprised halfway through.

I can’t believe he did that.

I can’t believe she did that.

Well, I like to say, you know, at the very beginning, get out a piece of paper and write down, no matter how bad things got, my spouse would never fill in the blank.

23:57

No matter how you know how bad the fighting got or whatever, he would never blank.

And whatever you wrote there, he’s going to do that and worse.

So I normally tell them that upfront to try to get them out of exactly what you’re talking about, Karen, is let’s just go into mediation and it’s all going to be fine.

24:12

It’s it’s not a friendly process.

I mean, this is, you know, adversarial.

Why?

It’s very nature because there’s a pot of money that you have to divide up and money brings out the worst in people.

So when you’re fighting over money and kids, those are two very emotionally charged on topics.

24:31

So yeah, you really can’t expect of her any person, but especially not a high conflict person to play nice with you in the sandbox.

So going into it with, we are not on the same team.

I have to protect my own interest and I’m the only one protecting my own interest.

That’s the best mindset to have, yeah.

24:49

And it’s really not in direct adversity to your spouse.

It’s it’s in the transaction or the result of that transaction for yourself and your family and the children and you know, whoever else is directly involved.

25:06

Right.

It does not have to be World War three again.

We don’t have to throw the grenade out.

We can handle this in a very civil, professional manner.

But understanding, you know, that you are the only person that is protecting your own interests.

That’s a really good mindset to have to before you walk into any negotiation.

25:22

That person across sitting across the table from you is hypothetically, you know, figuratively sitting across the table from you is not looking out for your best interest anymore.

And it’s it’s a hard reality.

Once you accept that, it’s sort of peaceful because you understand what you have to do.

Some people who you think would do the right thing in your opinion, their attorneys talk them out of it, you know, because in their financial best interest and they feel like they have a responsibility to tell them that.

25:51

But some go a little too far by saying you should never agree to this.

Well, it’s not up to the attorney to decide either.

But so sometimes even when you think your spouse will do that, they’re just not in a position to do it because they let someone else talk for them.

Yes.

26:06

And I always remind my clients you are in charge.

This is your divorce.

You are in charge of this.

Of course, having a good attorney is, you know, critical, but they’re just giving you advice based on what they know and based on how they know the legal process is going to work.

You are in charge of this so you don’t have to do everything that people tell you.

26:26

Just like if they came to you and you gave them a financial snapshot and said, here are some scenarios that might work, they, they’re free to make their own decisions with that information.

So the, the legal advice is the same thing.

You still have to use your critical thinking skills and play it out.

Three or four moves ahead.

26:42

What would be likely to happen if I did this?

If I took the attorney’s advice and took this move or filed this motion?

What are the likely next three steps that are going to happen?

You have to really be, you’re in charge.

And I know it’s scary and it can feel overwhelming, but you have to be your own boss.

27:00

You have to be your own decision maker and you have to do what’s right for you.

And, and you, you just can’t let other people get you worked up emotionally because it’s a high emotion situation, even if it’s your, you know, your own attorney, you have to really look at everything with a critical eye.

I, I really like that you say that because I think in large people get appalled at the legal process itself, right.

27:28

It’s, it’s, it takes too long, things don’t get done, hearings are rescheduled, you don’t get all the documents you need to make the best decision for yourself, and people feel handcuffed.

But to your point, you you have to be able to engage in direct conversations, even with your legal team, with any of your divorce professionals in a way that’s getting you to the settlement that you know you hope to accomplish.

27:57

Right.

I see both sides of that working.

I sometimes see where there is a complete inaction happening and there’s no momentum and nothing is moving forward and they’re waiting for discovery and filing motions and all of that, and it’s just dragging out.

And then I see the other side of it where the attorney might be more aggressive and it’s suggesting we do all of these things.

28:17

Fighting is very expensive.

Fighting is the most expensive way you can go about divorce.

So every time you make a decision, you need to be looking at how much is this going to cost and what is the likely result?

Is this moving me one or two steps closer to the finish line, which is a divorce.

28:35

And I always like to say to winning is getting out.

So yes, we’re going to look at all the financials and yes, we’re going to make sure that your assets are protected.

But sometimes there is a little give and take and you want to get to the end and you’re holding on to, you know, sometimes I see people holding on to like one thing that’s really not worth very much money.

28:53

And it’s like the here’s the finish line.

Do we want to cross it?

Because remember, winning is getting out.

And you know, you have to weigh the intangibles of divorce scenarios, too.

You can’t drag it out forever.

At some point, it’s got to end.

Which is hard because a lot of people realize that, you know, they’re happy to get out when they have a narcissistic spouse, but in a way, they also put their head in the sand because you’re so trained to respond to this spouse.

29:22

You know, took Me 2 1/2 years to basically get over it.

You almost want the interaction in some sick way.

You know, you’re like you, you, you’re.

So for 23 years, I’m used to responding to someone, fixing the situation.

And so when he would fire things out at me, it was so hard to just like, bite my tongue because I wanted, I was so trained to respond to that Go right.

29:44

Back.

I almost needed it myself so like.

Yes.

Until I learned, you know how to not engage and to back away, you know, I was getting the best result for that, but it took me a long time.

So I get it.

If you’re listening and this all sounds so easy to do, it’s not easy to do.

30:01

And a lot of times you have to look in the mirror and say, what am I adding to this?

What fuel am I adding to this fire here?

Because I need back out of that too.

And that’s why I like your first step of the stabilization, because for us it is going through the financial piece because you’re never getting to the execution if you don’t understand the financial impact, you don’t understand what documentation is missing, You don’t understand what documentation you could live without or you make decisions now without some of the things.

30:28

So you avoid some rabbit holes.

So for us it’s about probably if I use your terming stabilizing that piece of it.

But it’s so you know, I wish our assessment calls would come to you first for just the stabilization piece because a lot of them are just so afraid to move forward because they they haven’t dealt with that piece of the process and that’s not what we do so.

30:50

You know we need.

Someone Like You to do that because I think it’s so beneficial to them.

I really do.

I really think that we could change the way people got divorced if if if the person go through a divorce, realize that they do have.

Control on how the process.

Can move forward.

31:06

Yes, and my goal is for my clients to take their power back.

But going back to something you said, I mean, the trauma bond with a narcissistic partner is real.

So that that feeling, it’s almost a physical feeling of like, I have to respond to this, I have to go back and answer this.

31:22

It’s because you’re so trauma bonded and you’re so used to, there’s like a psychological component to it that you sometimes feel like you almost don’t even have control over.

And that’s that’s why working with someone who’s going to coach you step by step through.

No, OK, I know you feel really compelled to respond to this right now, but let’s talk through some ways.

31:40

We’re at least going to wait 24 hours.

That’s one tip I can give everyone who’s listening is anytime you’re feeling that and your nervous system gets going and your heart rate’s racing, you’re like, I’ve got to respond.

I’ve got to do 24 hours.

Unless it involves the health or well-being of your children, 24 hours.

31:57

There is never a need to respond to anything that quickly.

But we we get so many of the my spouse that I have to sign this by tomorrow or he’s going to blow up our whole deal.

You know, if it’s not signed by end of day tomorrow, he’s not giving me anything.

32:12

I’m not getting anything.

And you know.

We.

Send us.

That let’s look at it and you know.

The world will not end, I promise.

And getting really comfortable with a lot of times it’s coming out of their mouth is a lie.

32:27

OK.

And it’s hard to just put that blanket category on somebody, but it is helpful.

Is this statement truthful?

What if he’s not telling me the truth?

What if what she said is not 100% correct?

That’s a mindset shift that really can help people like critically looking at everything that comes.

32:45

Every e-mail comes through.

So you have until tomorrow, I was like to say, or what?

Well, he says this deal is going away.

Well, is it in your best interest to sign this deal in the next 24 hours?

No, because we’re still missing these three pieces.

Well, then no, the deal is not getting done.

33:00

It’s a simple answer.

But see, I’m more objective, right?

I can say I can look at it with an outside lens and help people do that.

When it’s your own life, it is.

It is very scary and you do get intimidated and you’re scared.

And I don’t want people.

I don’t want my clients or anyone else making decisions from a place of fear.

33:20

Amen to that.

So it sounds like we could go on and on and on and on and forever.

You’re really saying a lot of things that.

I resonate with me and for our clientele and how Karen and I feel about the whole divorce process.

So I really appreciate the perspective you’re bringing.

33:38

So before Karen shares your information, I want to just say point out to everyone, if you’re today what I pulled out of this.

I love your stabilize, strategize and execution, and I know that this is, although I don’t know when this is being released.

I was going to say, I know that getting prepared for divorce is probably one of the scariest things, But if you can really put into your brain, if you’re listening, that you need to stabilize those emotions first and that after that, we, we can strategize by getting your financial pieces together so that you can execute and not only.

34:09

Just execute with a good.

Attorney or mediator, But an attorney and a mediator that fits your needs and you have.

To understand that.

And then to work.

With the coach.

Like Courtney is really important because it can help you move through the process.

So that’s.

That was a big tick take away from me.

34:26

Another one was your level set and I guess that’s part of stabilizing.

But level set is such a good word, you know, So if you can write a word down for yourself and you just say level set, you know, everyone can comprehend what that is just like level set for yourself and that that’s such a peaceful feeling inside.

34:44

So I think there’s a lot of good takeaways here, and I’m going to add one more.

Your superpower is not reacting.

And so.

Knee jerk decisions to anything.

Is that what the second one was?

No, no.

Sudden moves, Yeah, no sudden moves.

35:00

I love that.

So really good.

I could really just pull out of a lot of great information here.

Thank you for that.

And how can?

Absolutely.

How can I listen?

Just find you.

So I’m on Instagram divorce dot strategy my website isdivorcestrategy.com so those are the two best ways to reach me and look at some of the resources I have to offer.

35:22

I love it.

Divorce is a business deal.

Framework Very very good.

Yes, this has been so great.

Thank you so much for having me on.

We’d love to talk to other divorce professionals and who are directly aligned with what we’re committed to because so many people still the, a high percentage of people believe if I’m thinking and if I’m going to get divorced, I just go hire an attorney or I just go hire a mediator and that’s it.

35:56

And your family members will say that.

Your colleagues may say that, but you know, we’re we’re here together, aligned with a different story based on our own personal experience and based on our professional experience.

And so we really value the this conversation, Courtney.

36:12

Thank you, I agree it’s so wonderful.

I I love that the conversation around divorce and the approach around divorce is changing and I love that there are resources like what you guys have to offer that will help people go through this in a more efficient manner and take that sting out of just like a runaway train with the expensive traditional path of divorce.

36:34

For sure.

And to our listeners, if you’re preparing for divorce or in the middle of a divorce, especially a high conflict, one strategy begins with financial clarity.

Visit azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ to learn how the MD's financial portrait can give you verified numbers, expert analysis, and a clear path or plan for negotiation.

36:57

And don’t forget to join the MD’s Community, a free, supportive space where you can access expert guidance, resources, and live Q&A events with us.

Don’t only like, follow and share this episode.

Leave us a comment.

We can always have Courtney back on.

37:14

And until next time, take a breath, protect your peace, and let knowledge be your power.

Thanks for joining us on another episode of WeChat Divorce.

We hope this episode was informative and supportive on your divorce journey.

If you're looking for more support for navigating divorce with confidence and clarity, head over to azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more podcast episodes, divorce events, and resources for your divorce.

37:43

We’ll see you back here for our next episode.

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00:00:01,000 –> 00:00:05,600
Welcome to WeChat Divorce,
hosted by Karen Chellew, Legal

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00:00:05,600 –> 00:00:08,480
Liaison and Catherine Shanahan,
CDFA.

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00:00:09,280 –> 00:00:12,560
Each episode we sit down with
divorce professionals and

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00:00:12,560 –> 00:00:16,200
industry experts to provide
insights and frank discussions

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00:00:16,200 –> 00:00:20,400
about real people, real
situations, and real divorce to

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00:00:20,400 –> 00:00:23,680
help you achieve your best life
post divorce.

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00:00:24,480 –> 00:00:28,040
This episode of WeChat Divorce
is brought to you by My Divorce

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00:00:28,040 –> 00:00:31,760
Solution, offering divorce
financial planning so clients

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00:00:31,840 –> 00:00:34,440
can secure the divorce
settlement they deserve.

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00:00:34,800 –> 00:00:38,520
Visit azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ to
request access.

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00:00:39,320 –> 00:00:42,400
Welcome back to WeChat Divorce,
brought to you by My Divorce

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00:00:42,400 –> 00:00:44,760
Solution.
I’m Karen Shalu, your legal

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00:00:44,760 –> 00:00:48,400
liaison here to help you
navigate the legal side of

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00:00:48,400 –> 00:00:51,080
divorce with clarity and
confidence.

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00:00:51,600 –> 00:00:54,400
And I’m Catherine Shanahan,
Certified Divorce Financial

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00:00:54,400 –> 00:00:57,360
Analyst and your partner in
building long term financial

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00:00:57,360 –> 00:00:59,760
stability throughout your
divorce journey and beyond.

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00:01:00,280 –> 00:01:03,880
At MD’s, we believe preparation
is power and clarity is your

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00:01:03,880 –> 00:01:07,400
greatest asset.
Today we had the chance to speak

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00:01:07,400 –> 00:01:10,000
with someone who deeply
understands one of the most

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emotionally draining dynamics in
divorce, those high conflict

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personalities.
And I think for most people,

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just by the fact that you’re
going through a divorce, it’s

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high conflict by default.
But there are some who deal, and

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I guess most who deal with very
high conflict personalities.

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Yeah, it was good catching up
with Karen today, Karen McMahon.

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It was a great podcast and
really resonated with me because

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I like analogies, right?
And we talked about staying on

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your side of the street, which I
think I can continue to talk

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about all not talk about think
about all day long.

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You know, it’s, it’s just such a
good way to approach your day

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and your decision making because
it can give you a piece of calm

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knowing that you’re only trying
to regulate yourself and not

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everything around you, which is
what you try to do when you’re

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going through the divorce
process. 100% And I think, you

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know, I’ve never used that term.
I don’t even think I’ve heard

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that term before.
So it’s interesting to talk

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about, but I often find myself
speaking with our clients about

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learning a new language.
And it’s kind of the same thing,

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meaning the language of, you
know, what do I want?

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How do things work for me?
Because during the relationship

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with a spouse, you have that
language going on specifically

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about finances.
And so when you’re going through

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divorce, you do have to learn a
new language about how you talk

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about things and the mindset and
the, you know, Catherine, you

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talk about it, how you view
money, how you talk about money.

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A lot of that has to be
redirected in order for you to

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have a successful financially
post divorce life.

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So I think that it all comes.
Together.

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Yeah.
You know, and I don’t know if

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you, if you know me at all, you
know that I just got a divorce.

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I had a short term marriage the
second time around, 4 years and

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got divorced.
But Karen, even going through

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that, you know, because we
didn’t have any assets together,

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you had to help me stay on my
side of the street because I was

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so logistically thinking,
listen, this is a four year

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marriage.
We have nothing together.

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We’re just going to sign this
agreement.

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Everybody knows what I do for a
living.

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So there was no question there.
But I kept trying to get him to

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see just sign this.
And you kept saying to me,

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Catherine, just do what you can
do you doing right?

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So it’s so hard to do.
What ifs, right?

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There’s so many what ifs, and
you feel so vulnerable to all

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the what ifs.
And believe us both, Catherine

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and I know there’s a ton of what
ifs, but you can’t control them.

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And the best place to stay is on
your side of the street every

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day, all day.
I love that.

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Yeah.
It’s such an important

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conversation we had with Karen
today, packed with practical

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strategies.
Plus, Karen is offering our

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listeners a free gift, her fresh
start guide, how to break free

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from a toxic spouse.
So stay tuned.

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We’ll tell you how to grab your
copy later in the show.

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All right, let’s get into it.
Here’s our conversation with

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Karen McMahon.
Karen, welcome to WeChat

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Divorce.
I am so excited to be here.

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Thanks for the invitation.
Of course, and we’re so excited

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too to have you on the show.
But first, I want to introduce

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you to our listeners.
Karen McMahon is a high conflict

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divorce strategist, certified
divorce coach and the founder of

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Journey Beyond Divorce.
She’s also the host of the

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Journey Beyond Divorce podcast
and co-author of Stepping Out of

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Chaos, Turning Pain to
Possibility.

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Karen began this work in 2010
after walking through her own

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painful divorce and discovering
that it became a

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transformational turning point
in her life.

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She now leads a national team of
coaches helping men and women

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around the world move through
divorce with emotional clarity

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and personal growth.
Karen, again, we’re so glad

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you’re here.
And to start, can you tell us a

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little bit about your own
journey and what inspired you to

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start Journey Beyond Divorce?
Sure, thank you.

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The crib notes version is I was,
I was married, Blade.

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I was 34.
We had two beautiful children.

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And by the time my daughter hit
her second birthday, our

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marriage had already gone
severely off the rails.

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And I was very confused.
I didn’t understand.

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I’m intelligent, I’m heart
centered.

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Why can’t I make this work?
And this man was my Prince

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Charming.
What happened?

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And there was my ex-husband is
he has a lot of narcissistic

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trades.
He had a tremendous amount of

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anger management.
I do believe he was on the butt

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is on the bipolar spectrum.
And so it was just a he was

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consistently inconsistent was
one of my sayings.

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So you just never knew what you
were going to get.

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And and I lost myself.
I actually had a physical

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altercation with him that I
began on my daughter’s second

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birthday.
And the following Monday I

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called a therapist and started
therapy because I knew I had

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become the rageaholic that I was
raised by my mom.

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My dad was an alcoholic, my mom
was a rageaholic.

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And when I began to connect the
dots in therapy, I realized I

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had brought a lot of unhealthy
tendencies to the table.

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I I was a people pleaser.
I was definitely codependent.

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I was uncomfortable with
conflict because of how I grew

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up and my my relationship was
filled with all of those things.

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When I finally decided to
divorce, I thought, OK, it’ll be

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over soon.
And then 3 1/2 years later,

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after the courts had us hire a
psychological forensic, an

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attorney for the children, CPS
was called on us three times.

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I had to call the cops.
I had to get an order of

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protection.
I was in sales.

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I was a full time fully
commissioned salesperson.

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I lost 3/4 of my business
because I was an emotional mess.

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I, I was, I was, I was nothing
that I tell my clients now to

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be.
I was really a hot mess and

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blaming and accusing.
And yet through the process, I

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learned about a 12 step program.
I learned to keep my side of the

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street clean.
And that I would really say was

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the beginning of a pivot.
I, I don’t know that there was

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much coaching.
This was 2002 to 2006.

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And so learning the 12 step
concept of keep your side of the

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street clean was huge for me.
And how important is it?

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And one step, one day at a time,
one minute at a time.

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And and then I and I remember
calling my best friend and

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saying I am so pleased with the
human being I am and that if I

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had to do it all over again, my
answer would be yes on a dime.

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Which is a pretty big statement
because it was a big hell.

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I lived in the attic.
It was 100 plus degrees for

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three of the 3 1/2 years.
My kids were four and six when I

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told them.
It was heartbreaking.

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It was scary.
He told me I was going to lose

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the kids, and I believed him.
I was so afraid that he was

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going to have these kids and
like just crush them.

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And yet, Fast forward all of
these years and even just right

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after my divorce, I knew this
was for me.

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This was not as hard as it was.
It was absolutely for me.

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00:09:09,640 –> 00:09:12,400
And I I was selling commercial
printing, which was a dying

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industry.
And I thought, and I’m a

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Christian and I sat on the couch
and cried for months and said,

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God, you did not bring me
through this journey to sell ink

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on paper.
What do you have for me?

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How how am I supposed to take
the jewels of what I’ve learned

156
00:09:30,480 –> 00:09:34,800
and do something better?
And I became a coach and I knew

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right away, right?
They’re like, what’s your niche?

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And I’m like, Oh my God, I was a
child of divorce.

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I just went through a hellacious
divorce.

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I think I’m supposed to be a
divorce coach.

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I hit the ground going into the
coaching in 2010.

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I had my first client 10, like
25% into the program.

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And I just built from there.
And I think that for so many

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coaches who have a hard time
launching a business I had, I

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had no other money.
It was like failure wasn’t an

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option.
I think that was like one of my

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mantras going into the divorce
coach chain.

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And and I was so passionate
about it.

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And I think that people really
resonate with someone who’s

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walked the walk because you
don’t just have that book

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theory, that theoretical
understanding.

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You have a lived, you have a
sense of it on such a cellular

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basis.
And for me, a lot of clients

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have hired me because they’re
like, I have no hope.

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But you seem so hopeful, Karen.
I’m actually going to hire you

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and hold on to your hope until I
can find my own.

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I like that, you know, it’s so
true because we all want to be

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able to relate to someone,
right?

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It’s not all the degrees, a lot
of times hanging on the wall.

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It’s more more about can you
relate to what I’m going

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through?
Because I don’t think people

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relate to me.
They talk over me.

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They took talk under me.
They they want to tell me that

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my life is just going to be okay
because they don’t really get

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it.
They only get what their

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profession is.
So when you actually have walked

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the walk, like you say, you’re
able to listen differently and

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speak differently to people
because you get where they are

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in that moment.
And you know, we see that on the

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financial side all day long.
We don’t judge anyone because

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they never were in charge of
their finances and, you know,

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they never looked at a statement
or their tax return.

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There’s no judgement here.
It’s like, let us walk you

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through it differently than
you’re used to so that you have

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an understanding and can make
good decisions for yourself.

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Exactly, Yeah.
Wow thank you for sharing that I

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am a little teary.
Just wow your story.

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I know I don’t get teary.
That our Karen doesn’t get teary

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very often.
So now me, I could baw my eyes

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out right now.
You know there’s.

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One of the things that now I’ve
been doing this for over 15

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years and so I’ve it’s, I’ve
spoken to thousands and one of

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the things I realized is I
really struggled with at least

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one piece of anyone who comes to
me.

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And I’m like, why, why did I
have to have all of that?

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And he’s like, well, maybe I had
to have all of that so that I

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could show up and go, I get it.
I hear you, I feel you.

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I, I understand you in a way
that so many others can’t.

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And So what was hell has turned
into just an incredible blessing

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and and not for me as much As
for the reach and the support

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and the healing that I can help
foster in the clients that we

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work with.
Well, there’s so many pieces of

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your story that are so similar
to mine that I really can make

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that connection because I was
deeply rooted in the church and

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my children were five and seven,
and I felt like everything that

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was happening was isolating me
from my family and everything I

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knew.
And so I really appreciate you

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sharing that because it really
spoke to me.

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I do have one question, though,
before we get into our further

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discussion today.
You talk about keeping my side

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of the street clean.
What does that mean?

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Well, and it actually plugs very
much into what we’re talking

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about South.
Most of us when our marriage

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starts going a little bit off
the rails, we figure what we

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need to do is help our spouse
change.

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And and that’s the beginning of
the mistake because, you know,

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we as human beings, we only have
control of ourselves when we

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bring little people into the
world, we actually think we have

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control of them for much longer
than we do.

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Probably 1516.
And this is the edge at which

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like you have to start really
losing control.

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And so here we are marrying
another adult and especially in

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high conflict divorce.
We should all over them.

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You should, you should, you
should, you should, you should.

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And I did a lot of that.
And when I went into therapy and

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I went into the program, the
question was not what’s he doing

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wrong?
Leave him alone.

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He’s on that side of the street.
He’s going to change or he’s not

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going to change.
He’s going to make his

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decisions.
That didn’t work.

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Barking at him, nagging him,
begging him, pleading with that

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didn’t work.
So what if you just stay on your

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side of the street?
What if everything is about what

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did I bring to the table?
What are my fears?

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What are my insecurities?
How am I reacting?

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How am I showing up in a way I
don’t want to?

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How’s my thought behavior as
well as my action behavior

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serving me?
And when I started doing that, I

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began to realize my own
insecurities, my own judgement,

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my unforgiveness, my my
expectations that were never

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verbalized or agreed to by the
other person.

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My and, and, and when you keep
your side of the street clean,

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when you focus on what you have
control over, which is you in a

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process that is so overwhelming
and uncertain and I want to say

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out of your control, people
always like how am I supposed to

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feel empowered?
We can feel so incredibly

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empowered in a process that we
don’t have a lot of control over

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when we’re controlling ourselves
because and especially I’ll say

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with the high conflict, it’s
often the spouse of the high

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conflict person that looks like
the high conflict person.

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We’re frothing at the mouth,
we’re raging, we’re hysterical,

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we’re screaming, we’re
frustrated, we’re melting, we’re

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we’re shutting down.
We’re doing all of these things.

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And when we work on that and to
the point of our topic today and

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we show up calm, clear and
confident, we we feel empowered

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because we’re controlling the
most important thing, which is

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how am I going to show up?
And like how do I line with my

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values?
Yeah, and that really plays

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through in the financial side as
well because you know, a lot of

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times in these high conflict
divorces, they’re well, my

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spouse won’t agree to that.
My spouse isn’t going to do

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that.
My spouse wants that asset.

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No, my spouse won’t give me that
asset.

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And so we try to reframe it.
You know, we don’t tell them

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what they get, but you know,
what are your thoughts?

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What what do you think of the
impact of this decision?

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Where would you like to be?
What asset would you like to

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keep and what’s the value to
that asset?

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And all of a sudden you do see
there you a little light coming

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on in their heads, like, oh, let
me just control my own thoughts

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here.
And then, yes, you’re going to

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compromise.
I hate to tell you this.

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If you’re listening to this
podcast, you are going to

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compromise somewhere down the
line.

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You don’t get everything that
you want.

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It just doesn’t work that way.
But if you’re clear on what

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options are available to you
based on you and your knowledge

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and what you know, you don’t
have to worry about the other

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side of the street.
As you’re saying, you know,

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that’s not your job to worry
about the other side of the

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street.
I so I love this analogy because

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of course I love being able to
relate to something, so I can

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relate to staying on my side of
the street.

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And you know what’s interesting
about what you said?

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I have this little mini course I
put together because of exactly

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what you just said.
I’ll get on the phone with

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someone and start coaching them
and they’ll start saying, well,

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my step spouse thinks, well, my
spouse says, well, my spouse

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believes and I’ll go, excuse me,
let’s pause the call.

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Could you ask him or her to
leave the room?

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Because I’m actually just
coaching you.

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And my course is reclaim your
mind, evict your spouse from

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your mental space.
Because so many people come and

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they’re so used to the narrative
that their husband or wife has

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told them that they’re fighting
against themselves even in their

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own head.
And, and when we as

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00:17:54,520 –> 00:17:58,680
professionals can say, you know,
let’s quiet that voice and let’s

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actually tune into what you
want, what you think, what you

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feel, what you believe, all of a
sudden they get centered and

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they start feeling aligned with
themselves.

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And that’s the beginning of
feeling empowered.

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It’s like, it’s like inviting
people to come home.

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Yeah.
And you know, it goes really

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sorry, Karen, but it really goes
further than just the divorce

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process.
And if you’re listening, I want

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you to understand this because a
lot of people say, you know,

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your divorce is over.
Yay, let’s have a divorce party

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and you’re so excited, but it’s
but everyone goes home after

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that and you are sitting at home
by yourself.

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And so if you I’m just going to
speak financially.

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So financially speaking, even if
you knew your options and you

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walked away with what was the
best scenario for the family or

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what have you, you still have to
have the confidence to not say,

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oh, what would my spouse do
right now?

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I remember for me and my spouse
and I were both financial

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people, but I handled
everything.

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But it was still post divorce.
It was still scary like, Oh my

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God, I’m going to buy a car
without talking to my spouse

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about it.
You know, I had a 20 year

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relation, 23 year relationship.
Now all of a sudden I’m making

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this decision by myself.
Oh my gosh, I have to go think

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about buying a place, buying a
home by myself.

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And I have nobody to bounce that
off of.

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So if they do that work with
you, you’re going to have more

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00:19:15,600 –> 00:19:18,800
confidence, even post divorce,
feeling clear about what

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00:19:18,800 –> 00:19:20,840
decisions you have to make for
yourself.

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00:19:21,080 –> 00:19:23,600
And the answer is not always get
into another relationship.

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Right or expecting that your
attorney is going to take care

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00:19:28,960 –> 00:19:34,240
of matters so that in place of
you and something that you know,

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00:19:34,240 –> 00:19:37,720
our topic today is staying calm,
clear and confident in a high

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00:19:37,720 –> 00:19:41,240
conflict divorce.
And I think the fork in the road

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00:19:41,240 –> 00:19:45,640
is exactly what you’re talking
about, Karen, taking the time to

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invest in yourself to also be a
part of that ability to engage

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in that journey.
Short of that, you and I think I

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00:19:57,880 –> 00:20:00,040
did this.
I didn’t invest in myself,

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00:20:00,040 –> 00:20:03,120
frankly, but you did.
And I see the difference in our

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00:20:03,120 –> 00:20:05,760
journeys.
I wanted someone to take care of

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00:20:05,760 –> 00:20:07,800
it for me.
I worked in a law firm and if I

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00:20:07,800 –> 00:20:12,360
just get the best attorney in
this county, I’m going to be

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00:20:12,360 –> 00:20:14,200
fine.
Well, that wasn’t true.

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00:20:14,200 –> 00:20:18,240
But you took the pathway of I’m
going to do what it takes to

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00:20:18,240 –> 00:20:22,480
invest in myself to become clear
to do what I can do so that when

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00:20:22,480 –> 00:20:26,360
you emerged on the other side,
you not only.

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00:20:28,040 –> 00:20:32,240
Emerged a better person, but I’m
sure your children and the

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00:20:32,240 –> 00:20:36,600
family unit did as well.
That’s just my presumption, but

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00:20:36,600 –> 00:20:38,600
I see how you’re speaking about
it.

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00:20:38,600 –> 00:20:41,080
So I think I’m can be pretty
confident there.

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00:20:41,800 –> 00:20:44,040
You know, I think it’s, it’s
such a good point.

359
00:20:44,040 –> 00:20:45,920
You know, we don’t want to
diminish.

360
00:20:45,920 –> 00:20:48,960
It’s vitally important that you
understand the legal process,

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00:20:48,960 –> 00:20:53,680
that you understand your
finances, and yet you could, you

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00:20:53,680 –> 00:20:56,320
could emerge with the best
settlement.

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And if you haven’t done any of
your inner work, if you haven’t

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00:21:00,280 –> 00:21:03,200
looked at that, if you haven’t
healed your heart, refined your

365
00:21:03,200 –> 00:21:07,840
character, there is no freedom.
You have a piece of paper and

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00:21:07,840 –> 00:21:11,840
maybe a lot of money, but
nothing else has changed.

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00:21:11,880 –> 00:21:15,720
I have had people come to me, I
think the latest was 12 years,

368
00:21:15,720 –> 00:21:20,720
10 or 12 years post divorce,
lost all those years because

369
00:21:20,720 –> 00:21:22,520
they were still looking across
the street.

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00:21:22,520 –> 00:21:25,120
They were looking at what their
spouse did and their spouse was

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00:21:25,120 –> 00:21:29,000
with.
And and so the freedom doesn’t

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00:21:29,000 –> 00:21:31,520
come from the piece of paper and
the finances.

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We need it and it’s important,
but that doesn’t bring the

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00:21:34,920 –> 00:21:37,600
freedom.
The freedom comes from

375
00:21:37,640 –> 00:21:42,160
disentangling yourself from the
other human being and then

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00:21:42,520 –> 00:21:44,920
paying attention to what got me
there.

377
00:21:45,200 –> 00:21:49,120
What was the luggage I threw on
the table with my spouse and how

378
00:21:49,120 –> 00:21:52,960
can I clean that up so that I
am?

379
00:21:55,120 –> 00:21:58,080
I have a colleague who says be
the one to meet the one.

380
00:21:58,080 –> 00:22:02,880
Become the one to meet the 1:00
so that I am everything I want

381
00:22:03,200 –> 00:22:06,080
in a partner.
I am calm, Claire and confident.

382
00:22:06,080 –> 00:22:13,200
I am able to regulate my
emotions, manage my mindset,

383
00:22:13,320 –> 00:22:18,960
notice my judgement, work on my
unforgiveness, address my fear

384
00:22:18,960 –> 00:22:21,080
of conflict.
I was talking to a client

385
00:22:21,080 –> 00:22:23,640
yesterday and I was like, that’s
not conflict, that’s just a

386
00:22:23,640 –> 00:22:26,880
disagreement.
Yeah, but I was raised where

387
00:22:26,880 –> 00:22:30,040
anytime there was a
disagreement, XY and Z would

388
00:22:30,040 –> 00:22:33,160
happen.
That’s the inner work that we do

389
00:22:33,440 –> 00:22:36,920
that enables somebody.
And then honestly, I walked away

390
00:22:36,920 –> 00:22:42,640
with $60,000 of debt, two kids,
maybe half of what I should have

391
00:22:42,640 –> 00:22:46,240
gotten in child support, and I
had this Commission only job

392
00:22:46,240 –> 00:22:49,800
with almost no clients left.
And so one could say my

393
00:22:49,800 –> 00:22:52,320
settlement was as horrific as it
could get.

394
00:22:53,720 –> 00:22:58,160
I have loved my life.
I feel so deeply grateful for

395
00:22:58,160 –> 00:23:01,480
both my divorce.
And last night I was speaking to

396
00:23:01,480 –> 00:23:04,040
a client who was talking about
regret and I wished I had

397
00:23:04,040 –> 00:23:06,760
married the other one.
And I’m like, I am so glad I

398
00:23:06,760 –> 00:23:11,840
married my husband because
number one, raising the two

399
00:23:11,840 –> 00:23:15,120
human beings we brought into the
world has been such a gift.

400
00:23:15,360 –> 00:23:21,160
But even more than that, because
of him, I am who I am today and

401
00:23:21,160 –> 00:23:23,320
and because of the work that I
chose to do.

402
00:23:23,320 –> 00:23:28,640
And so I think that each
listener, we can take the

403
00:23:28,640 –> 00:23:32,800
circumstances that we’re facing
and look at it from a vantage

404
00:23:32,800 –> 00:23:35,320
point that serves us.
And the final thing I want to

405
00:23:35,320 –> 00:23:42,360
say is my children are rock
stars only because I didn’t, I

406
00:23:42,360 –> 00:23:47,440
didn’t flood them with my stuff.
And that’s so important.

407
00:23:47,440 –> 00:23:51,800
And so we can break generational
chains of whatever we came from

408
00:23:52,040 –> 00:23:56,680
by getting healthy and then just
leading by example with our

409
00:23:56,680 –> 00:23:58,440
children.
And even if you have adult

410
00:23:58,440 –> 00:24:01,080
children, the best time to start
is today.

411
00:24:02,320 –> 00:24:05,640
Yeah, I agree with that.
And you know, and your children,

412
00:24:06,080 –> 00:24:10,440
my daughter got married five
years ago now and you know, you

413
00:24:10,440 –> 00:24:12,720
have to put I’m very I love
marriage.

414
00:24:12,720 –> 00:24:15,920
I just got divorced again, but I
love marriage and all my friends

415
00:24:15,920 –> 00:24:17,560
and family say you better never
get married again.

416
00:24:17,720 –> 00:24:19,760
But anyway, I’m a marrying kind
of girl.

417
00:24:19,760 –> 00:24:22,880
I love relationships, but
keeping that pot just because

418
00:24:22,880 –> 00:24:28,760
you can’t, you’re divorced from
your kids parent, other parent,

419
00:24:30,360 –> 00:24:32,640
doesn’t mean you have to be
negative about them entering

420
00:24:32,640 –> 00:24:34,440
into divorce.
You know, I hear a lot of

421
00:24:34,440 –> 00:24:35,640
divorce.
He’s saying, Oh my God, I’m

422
00:24:35,640 –> 00:24:37,160
telling my daughter she
shouldn’t get married.

423
00:24:37,160 –> 00:24:38,840
Marriage is terrible, blah,
blah, blah.

424
00:24:38,840 –> 00:24:40,080
Because they’re still living in
there.

425
00:24:40,080 –> 00:24:42,320
They haven’t done the work that
with you like you’re speaking

426
00:24:42,320 –> 00:24:43,920
about.
So they live in this negative

427
00:24:43,920 –> 00:24:47,800
Nelly kind of thing where I’m
like, great, you know,

428
00:24:48,600 –> 00:24:50,400
communicate, communicate,
communicate.

429
00:24:50,400 –> 00:24:54,360
And, you know, I just give them
hindsight tip kind of tips if,

430
00:24:54,480 –> 00:24:57,280
if they ask right or, and that’s
hard too.

431
00:24:57,280 –> 00:25:00,760
And I think that if you haven’t
done the work to heal yourself

432
00:25:00,760 –> 00:25:03,880
from your own divorce, you’re
not able to do that.

433
00:25:03,880 –> 00:25:07,120
So it it spreads out in so many
areas of your life moving

434
00:25:07,120 –> 00:25:08,920
forward.
And it’s one quick life that we

435
00:25:08,920 –> 00:25:11,240
have.
That’s so true.

436
00:25:11,840 –> 00:25:15,760
And you know, I can tell for our
clients coming through our

437
00:25:16,000 –> 00:25:21,080
process of the MD’s portrait, if
they have done the work, they’re

438
00:25:21,080 –> 00:25:24,120
approaching decisions very
differently.

439
00:25:24,120 –> 00:25:28,520
They’re not in that space of
saying, well, I’m going to let

440
00:25:28,520 –> 00:25:34,000
my spouse choose the mediator so
that, you know, I want

441
00:25:34,000 –> 00:25:41,280
exacerbate the emotions here or
I don’t want to take what’s not

442
00:25:41,280 –> 00:25:46,920
mine or, you know, I’m, I have
to tiptoe very carefully so that

443
00:25:46,920 –> 00:25:50,480
he or she doesn’t get upset.
And to your point of staying on

444
00:25:50,480 –> 00:25:53,720
your side of the street, if
you’re doing that work for

445
00:25:53,720 –> 00:25:57,160
yourself, you can just make
better decisions, more

446
00:25:57,160 –> 00:26:01,120
practical, more pragmatic
decisions as you’re working

447
00:26:01,120 –> 00:26:03,440
through your finances and as
you’re working with your

448
00:26:03,440 –> 00:26:05,480
attorney through these legal
decisions.

449
00:26:05,680 –> 00:26:09,120
It does make a difference.
Yeah, 100%.

450
00:26:09,640 –> 00:26:12,880
And so much of what we do is
unconscious, right?

451
00:26:12,880 –> 00:26:18,160
So it’s whether I behave the way
I do because I was raised by, in

452
00:26:18,160 –> 00:26:22,240
my case of rageaholic and an
alcoholic or because of my

453
00:26:22,240 –> 00:26:25,680
Catholic upbringing or because
of my Italian and Irish heritage

454
00:26:25,680 –> 00:26:30,040
or because of American Society.
So we we all have and then we

455
00:26:30,040 –> 00:26:35,000
have unconscious beliefs.
And when you slam into the wall

456
00:26:35,000 –> 00:26:39,320
of high conflict divorce, there
is an invitation to slow down.

457
00:26:39,320 –> 00:26:42,480
And as we talk about the work, I
would love to touch on three

458
00:26:42,480 –> 00:26:45,960
things.
And the first one is mindset.

459
00:26:46,520 –> 00:26:51,800
You know, we kind of go along
somewhat unconscious.

460
00:26:51,800 –> 00:26:53,840
I was high, I was highly
unconscious.

461
00:26:53,840 –> 00:26:55,760
And we just do whatever we’re
doing.

462
00:26:55,960 –> 00:26:58,720
But when you slam into this
particular wall, there’s an

463
00:26:58,720 –> 00:27:01,600
opportunity to say, let me slow
things down.

464
00:27:01,600 –> 00:27:05,160
How am I looking at this?
Why am I always worried about

465
00:27:05,160 –> 00:27:09,280
him?
And so less likely to take care

466
00:27:09,280 –> 00:27:11,560
of me.
And so one thing that my clients

467
00:27:11,560 –> 00:27:16,200
will walk through, it’s like,
where are you on your list of

468
00:27:16,200 –> 00:27:19,360
priorities?
And typically I’m, I’m not at

469
00:27:19,360 –> 00:27:22,240
the bottom of the list.
I’m just not on the list at all.

470
00:27:22,480 –> 00:27:27,080
So, So what does that mean?
Well, everything you do, I say

471
00:27:27,080 –> 00:27:30,320
yes.
When I want to say no, I, I act

472
00:27:30,320 –> 00:27:33,040
like a martyr because I did
things I didn’t want to do that

473
00:27:33,040 –> 00:27:35,080
I could have said, you know,
like they’re all of these

474
00:27:35,080 –> 00:27:36,640
things.
And so the first thing is

475
00:27:36,640 –> 00:27:38,720
mindset.
How are you looking at things?

476
00:27:38,720 –> 00:27:43,120
How are you looking at your
situation and even how are you

477
00:27:43,120 –> 00:27:46,120
looking at your soon to be ex?
Because when you can start

478
00:27:46,120 –> 00:27:48,760
saying what is my thought about
that?

479
00:27:48,760 –> 00:27:51,960
Oh, so for me he’s going to get
custody of the kids.

480
00:27:52,960 –> 00:27:55,560
It took me so long to slow it
down and say, well, why in the

481
00:27:55,560 –> 00:27:57,880
world would I think he’s going
to get all the custody of the

482
00:27:57,880 –> 00:28:02,040
kids because he says so.
And why do I listen to that?

483
00:28:02,360 –> 00:28:05,360
And what else is possible?
And what did my attorney tell

484
00:28:05,360 –> 00:28:06,760
me?
And why am I listening to my

485
00:28:06,760 –> 00:28:09,800
spouse over my attorney when my
attorney actually does this not,

486
00:28:09,800 –> 00:28:13,680
you know, for a living.
And, and, and then you start

487
00:28:13,680 –> 00:28:20,040
looking at, well, I’m, I’m so on
my ear, which I was so

488
00:28:20,040 –> 00:28:24,600
emotionally overwhelmed.
Do I even understand what that

489
00:28:24,600 –> 00:28:27,000
means?
Like, do I know when I get

490
00:28:27,000 –> 00:28:29,320
triggered, how it shows up in my
body?

491
00:28:30,000 –> 00:28:34,040
Do I know when I get triggered,
how to bring myself back to calm

492
00:28:34,040 –> 00:28:39,120
rather than acting out of that
trigger and being reactive and

493
00:28:40,280 –> 00:28:43,400
throwing emotional grenades
across the room, which is what

494
00:28:43,400 –> 00:28:46,440
we end up doing.
And so I think that the three

495
00:28:46,440 –> 00:28:50,200
areas are really mindset,
emotional regulation and

496
00:28:50,200 –> 00:28:53,440
boundaries.
And when we can begin to work on

497
00:28:53,440 –> 00:28:56,280
those just baby steps, just
change one thing.

498
00:28:57,040 –> 00:29:00,080
Just the next time you think the
thought, say, how true is that?

499
00:29:00,360 –> 00:29:02,120
That, that that’s that’s the
thing.

500
00:29:02,360 –> 00:29:05,120
How true is that?
And then if you’re like, no,

501
00:29:05,120 –> 00:29:07,960
that’s true, he’s going to screw
me and take all that money.

502
00:29:08,560 –> 00:29:13,560
OK, What else might be true?
What is your attorney saying?

503
00:29:13,640 –> 00:29:16,520
What are your legal rights?
What else might be possible?

504
00:29:16,520 –> 00:29:21,040
And if you’ve been bullied, then
their voice is so very loud and

505
00:29:21,040 –> 00:29:23,840
your inner critic is equally as
loud.

506
00:29:23,840 –> 00:29:29,240
And the thing we want you to tap
into is your intuition, your

507
00:29:29,240 –> 00:29:34,000
gut, your inner wisdom.
And that’s going to whisper.

508
00:29:34,320 –> 00:29:38,440
And until you calm the chaos of
your life, you’re not going to

509
00:29:38,440 –> 00:29:41,440
hear the whisper.
And that whisper is the guiding

510
00:29:41,440 –> 00:29:43,400
light that’s going to get you to
where you need to go.

511
00:29:45,960 –> 00:29:51,120
You like it?
I do too and it and Karen, is

512
00:29:51,160 –> 00:29:55,520
this what you walk through
people through in your 12 step,

513
00:29:56,600 –> 00:29:59,560
your 12 step divorce recovery
program?

514
00:29:59,960 –> 00:30:04,000
Is that what this is?
Yeah, so, so one of the steps is

515
00:30:04,000 –> 00:30:07,760
so, so the first step is about
staying calm and learning to

516
00:30:07,760 –> 00:30:12,240
take a pause, right?
Because I mean, I have clients

517
00:30:12,240 –> 00:30:14,920
where it’s like I’ll even be
coaching them and their, their

518
00:30:15,000 –> 00:30:18,280
their spouse or their ex text
them and they’re about to stick

519
00:30:18,280 –> 00:30:20,200
their fingers on the phone and
I’m like, put the phone down.

520
00:30:20,520 –> 00:30:23,720
Breathe.
There’s no fire.

521
00:30:24,400 –> 00:30:27,040
There’s no fire.
Let’s look at how did that make

522
00:30:27,040 –> 00:30:28,880
you feel?
My heart’s pounding.

523
00:30:28,920 –> 00:30:30,360
I’m angry.
Like whatever.

524
00:30:30,360 –> 00:30:34,520
OK, let’s breathe.
What did you make that mean?

525
00:30:35,280 –> 00:30:37,960
He said, she said blah, blah.
What did you make that mean?

526
00:30:38,280 –> 00:30:39,480
I’m bad.
I’m wrong.

527
00:30:39,480 –> 00:30:46,080
I’m what if it just means that
he or she is splashing their

528
00:30:46,080 –> 00:30:48,800
emotional reaction onto you?
What if it just means that

529
00:30:48,800 –> 00:30:51,080
they’re angry that they’re out
of control?

530
00:30:51,080 –> 00:30:53,480
What if you just make it mean
what it is?

531
00:30:54,000 –> 00:30:57,960
And so that that I am the center
that people pleasing peace,

532
00:30:57,960 –> 00:31:01,800
which is anything that anyone
says or does says something

533
00:31:01,800 –> 00:31:04,520
about me.
And I’ve raised my children on

534
00:31:04,520 –> 00:31:06,000
this.
It’s like what somebody else

535
00:31:06,000 –> 00:31:09,360
says or does is about them.
What you say or do is about you

536
00:31:10,560 –> 00:31:12,200
keep your side of the street
clean.

537
00:31:12,200 –> 00:31:14,960
And so, so yeah, so we walk them
through that.

538
00:31:14,960 –> 00:31:17,480
Another one is mindset.
Mindset.

539
00:31:17,480 –> 00:31:19,680
There’s four, there’s four
things, right?

540
00:31:19,680 –> 00:31:23,440
There are our assumptions,
because it happened before, it’s

541
00:31:23,440 –> 00:31:27,000
going to happen again.
Our interpretations, which is my

542
00:31:27,000 –> 00:31:29,600
perspective of what you said and
what it means.

543
00:31:30,320 –> 00:31:33,360
Our limiting beliefs, which is
what I talked about earlier, our

544
00:31:33,360 –> 00:31:36,360
cultural upbringing, religious
upbringing and everything else.

545
00:31:37,280 –> 00:31:39,800
Our beliefs, those limited
beliefs are often the

546
00:31:39,800 –> 00:31:43,000
unconscious ones that we don’t
even realize, and then the one

547
00:31:43,000 –> 00:31:46,800
we all love so much, which is
our inner critic.

548
00:31:47,240 –> 00:31:52,360
And when we start going, oh, so
that’s what’s going on between

549
00:31:52,360 –> 00:31:54,720
my ears.
Well, what if I just clean all

550
00:31:54,720 –> 00:31:56,600
of that up?
What if I just slow down?

551
00:31:56,600 –> 00:32:00,040
I’d let him or her deal with
their craziness.

552
00:32:00,040 –> 00:32:04,320
And I just, I just focus and
clean that up and start noticing

553
00:32:04,320 –> 00:32:08,560
and start questioning.
And certainly having a coach or

554
00:32:08,560 –> 00:32:12,200
a therapist as a sounding board
because, you know, if you’re

555
00:32:12,200 –> 00:32:14,200
just in your head, that’s never
good.

556
00:32:14,760 –> 00:32:20,280
Those things go a long way.
We have one on on choosing

557
00:32:20,280 –> 00:32:23,960
between judgment and curiosity.
You know, you enter divorce,

558
00:32:23,960 –> 00:32:26,680
we’re all really judgmental.
We’re judgmental of our spouse.

559
00:32:26,680 –> 00:32:28,600
We’re judgmental of the divorce
system.

560
00:32:28,600 –> 00:32:30,680
We’re judgmental of our
financial planners.

561
00:32:30,680 –> 00:32:33,000
Like there’s just judgment going
everywhere.

562
00:32:33,960 –> 00:32:35,520
Get curious.
Wow.

563
00:32:35,520 –> 00:32:39,280
I’m so triggered by Catherine
and Karen and what they told me.

564
00:32:39,760 –> 00:32:42,600
OK, Why am I so triggered?
I have a lot of money fear.

565
00:32:43,080 –> 00:32:46,920
OK, so what’s going on with my
money fear?

566
00:32:47,680 –> 00:32:50,560
I’ve had millionaires say I’m
going to be homeless and in the

567
00:32:50,560 –> 00:32:53,720
street and I’m like, what’s the
likelihood?

568
00:32:53,720 –> 00:32:55,360
OK, maybe it’s not going to be
that.

569
00:32:55,480 –> 00:32:58,120
OK, let’s start looking at what
is likely what’s going on

570
00:32:58,120 –> 00:33:00,400
beneath that.
It’s a money fear, which I’m

571
00:33:00,400 –> 00:33:02,040
sure you guys deal with all the
time.

572
00:33:02,040 –> 00:33:06,120
So those are the things that we
take them step by step through

573
00:33:06,120 –> 00:33:10,840
the 12 step program to it’s all
inner work.

574
00:33:10,840 –> 00:33:16,080
The 12 step program is all inner
work that has beautiful outer

575
00:33:16,080 –> 00:33:18,440
impacts.
Once you start behaving out of

576
00:33:18,440 –> 00:33:23,600
that, those new awarenesses.
Yeah, that’s great.

577
00:33:23,600 –> 00:33:25,960
I mean, Karen, you’re sharing so
much wisdom and everything that

578
00:33:26,120 –> 00:33:28,880
you’re saying today for people.
I’d like to just share a couple

579
00:33:28,880 –> 00:33:31,800
of highlights of a few important
takeaways that I’m hearing.

580
00:33:32,200 –> 00:33:34,080
You know, if you’re going
through a divorce and you need

581
00:33:34,080 –> 00:33:38,560
to find that calm, you know, I
love your stay on your side of

582
00:33:38,560 –> 00:33:42,680
the street analogy.
It’s really, gosh, if you could

583
00:33:42,680 –> 00:33:45,640
just start with that one
statement throughout your day

584
00:33:45,640 –> 00:33:49,040
today, you know, OK, am I on my
side of the street?

585
00:33:49,040 –> 00:33:51,240
You know, I’m doing it right now
myself personally.

586
00:33:52,040 –> 00:33:56,000
And, and that will really help
you shift that, excuse me, that

587
00:33:56,000 –> 00:33:59,440
mindset that you’re talking
about because your mind is so

588
00:33:59,440 –> 00:34:02,160
powerful and your mind is going
to direct you through this

589
00:34:02,160 –> 00:34:05,640
divorce process and beyond.
So if you could just take away

590
00:34:05,640 –> 00:34:09,560
today the mindset shift and
staying on your side of the

591
00:34:09,560 –> 00:34:13,120
street, I think that you’re
going to change the way you move

592
00:34:13,120 –> 00:34:14,520
through the rest of your
process.

593
00:34:16,400 –> 00:34:19,560
For sure.
And you know, Karen, I really

594
00:34:19,560 –> 00:34:24,400
appreciate what you said about
put your phone down, take the

595
00:34:24,400 –> 00:34:29,560
time to pause and breathe
because every day I’m speaking

596
00:34:29,560 –> 00:34:37,120
to people who are in the, I
think the term is emotional

597
00:34:37,120 –> 00:34:41,679
dysregulation of not of just the
response.

598
00:34:41,679 –> 00:34:44,480
Yesterday, I was on the phone
with someone and she was trying

599
00:34:44,480 –> 00:34:47,159
to make a decision.
And she said, he’s texting me

600
00:34:47,159 –> 00:34:49,400
right now.
I have to make the decision

601
00:34:49,400 –> 00:34:52,560
right now.
And I said, well, do you like, I

602
00:34:52,560 –> 00:34:55,360
can understand the emotion, but
do you?

603
00:34:55,360 –> 00:34:58,680
And is that more important than
getting financial clarity?

604
00:34:58,680 –> 00:35:02,000
You get to decide that.
You know, I’m not a divorce

605
00:35:02,000 –> 00:35:06,760
coach, but I see it happen.
And so I appreciate that you you

606
00:35:06,800 –> 00:35:11,280
offer this for people at because
divorce can go fast.

607
00:35:11,480 –> 00:35:16,480
It can be hugely disruptive and
finding that ability to make

608
00:35:16,480 –> 00:35:19,880
good decisions is so important.
So thank you again for being

609
00:35:19,880 –> 00:35:23,920
with us today, your story, your
work, you’re doing what you

610
00:35:24,040 –> 00:35:28,000
offer hope for people who feel
stuck in pain, fear and

611
00:35:28,000 –> 00:35:31,440
confusion.
So can you talk and let our

612
00:35:31,440 –> 00:35:34,880
listeners know where they can
learn more about Journey Beyond

613
00:35:34,880 –> 00:35:37,240
Divorce and connect with your
resources?

614
00:35:37,600 –> 00:35:40,800
Yeah, thanks so much.
That’s my dog if you hear her in

615
00:35:40,800 –> 00:35:44,640
the background.
So Journey Beyond Divorce is

616
00:35:44,640 –> 00:35:47,360
also a podcast.
We’re one of the top podcasts,

617
00:35:48,040 –> 00:35:51,840
divorce podcasts in the world
and in the United States, and we

618
00:35:51,840 –> 00:35:56,400
have over 425 episodes on our
website,

619
00:35:56,840 –> 00:36:01,520
whichisjbddivorcesupport.com.
You can actually grab a series

620
00:36:01,520 –> 00:36:06,360
if there’s something specific or
specific stage of divorce you’re

621
00:36:06,360 –> 00:36:09,400
in like a a curated playlist
just for that.

622
00:36:09,760 –> 00:36:14,800
And we have our gift to to your
listeners is a rapid relief

623
00:36:14,800 –> 00:36:18,880
call.
And that is a call with one of

624
00:36:18,880 –> 00:36:22,720
our coaches where you’re you can
get clear and you can find out

625
00:36:22,720 –> 00:36:26,680
what other support we have that
might serve you and how coaching

626
00:36:26,680 –> 00:36:33,560
has worked and supported others.
And so rapidreliefcall.com nice

627
00:36:33,560 –> 00:36:37,960
and easy is the way to get on
our schedule.

628
00:36:37,960 –> 00:36:41,840
And I so appreciate, I’m so glad
to have met the two of you and

629
00:36:41,840 –> 00:36:49,680
so appreciate the the robust
support that you offer clients,

630
00:36:49,680 –> 00:36:53,440
especially having both the
financial and legal background

631
00:36:53,440 –> 00:36:56,800
to help them.
And I think that, you know, for

632
00:36:56,800 –> 00:37:01,360
me, with every client I talked
to, the one thing I tell as

633
00:37:01,360 –> 00:37:05,120
coaches, we’re supposed to ask
and not tell.

634
00:37:05,120 –> 00:37:10,960
But the one tell is always find
yourself a rock star financial

635
00:37:10,960 –> 00:37:13,440
professional.
Because no matter how much or

636
00:37:13,440 –> 00:37:17,440
how little you have, it’s a
vital part of the divorce

637
00:37:17,440 –> 00:37:22,080
journey.
And especially if you have money

638
00:37:22,080 –> 00:37:27,040
mindset issues.
People like you are just gold

639
00:37:27,040 –> 00:37:28,520
for everyone going through
divorce.

640
00:37:28,520 –> 00:37:30,240
So thank you so much for what
you do.

641
00:37:31,240 –> 00:37:32,720
And likewise, and thank you for
that.

642
00:37:33,280 –> 00:37:36,200
To our listeners of navigating
divorce and you feel like you’re

643
00:37:36,200 –> 00:37:38,520
constantly in defense mode,
you’re not alone.

644
00:37:38,720 –> 00:37:41,800
At My Divorce Solution, we help
you step out of that survival

645
00:37:41,800 –> 00:37:44,520
mode by giving the tools to
prepare and protect your

646
00:37:44,520 –> 00:37:47,800
finances as you move forward.
So visit us at My Divorce
00:37:47,800 –> 00:37:51,400
solution.com to learn how the
MD’s financial portrait can help
00:37:51,400 –> 00:37:54,480
you organize your assets,
prepare for negotiations, and
00:37:54,480 –> 00:37:56,600
take the guesswork out of your
next steps.
00:37:57,760 –> 00:38:01,920
And be sure to join the NDS
Community, your hub for trusted
00:38:01,920 –> 00:38:05,000
resources, expert guidance, and
real connection.
00:38:05,320 –> 00:38:08,160
Whether you’re just starting
your divorce journey or already
00:38:08,160 –> 00:38:12,080
rebuilding, it’s a safe space to
access free financial tools,
00:38:12,320 –> 00:38:14,720
find support, and move forward
with confidence.
00:38:15,000 –> 00:38:16,720
We’ll drop the link in the show
notes.
00:38:17,280 –> 00:38:20,440
And don’t forget to like, follow
and share this episode.
00:38:20,680 –> 00:38:24,120
Until next time, stay on your
side of the street, take a
00:38:24,120 –> 00:38:27,000
breath, protect your peace, and
let knowledge be your power.
00:38:29,040 –> 00:38:33,040
Thanks for joining us on another
episode of WeChat Divorce.
00:38:33,480 –> 00:38:36,520
We hope this episode was
informative and supportive on
00:38:36,520 –> 00:38:39,360
your divorce journey.
If you’re looking for more
00:38:39,360 –> 00:38:42,560
support for navigating divorce
with confidence and clarity,
00:38:42,920 –> 00:38:46,680
head over to
azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more
00:38:46,680 –> 00:38:50,840
podcast episodes, divorce
events, and resources for your
00:38:50,840 –> 00:38:53,160
divorce.
We’ll see you back here for our

00:38:53,160 –> 00:38:54,040
next episode.