Co-Parenting Without Chaos: Tools That Protect Children After Divorce

0:00

Welcome to WeChat Divorce, hosted by Karen Chalou, Legal Liaison and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA.

Each episode we sit down with divorced professionals and industry experts to provide insights and frank discussions about real people, real situations, and real divorce to help you achieve your best life post divorce.

0:39

Children don’t experience divorce through court documents or financial agreements.

They experience it through tone, tension and the daily communication between their parents.

And when that communication stays reactive, unclear, or emotionally charged, children carry that instability with them.

1:00

And here’s what most people miss.

Financial stress does not stay in spreadsheets.

It shows up in pickup conversations.

Reimbursement text and arguments about who said yes and who already paid.

But there’s a better way.

1:16

Today we’re going to talk about what actually reduces conflict, protects children and creates accountability and Co parenting long after the paperwork is signed.

So stay with us.

Welcome back to WeChat divorce, brought to you by my divorce solution.

1:32

I’m Karen Shalu, Legal Liaison, helping you navigate the legal complexities of divorce with clarity and confidence.

And I’m Catherine Shanahan, divorce financial specialist and certified divorce financial Analyst.

Also your partner in long term financial security.

1:49

At MD’s we believe preparation isn’t just about documentation in numbers.

It’s about strategy, mindset and understanding the full impact of your decisions, especially when children are involved.

And when kids are involved, financial decisions are not a one time decision.

2:04

They are ongoing system, how our expenses get approved, how reimbursements work and what happens when someone refuses and how parents stay out of consent, consent constant negotiation mode, which is one of the things I liked about the conversation today, that tone AI, they talked about that correct your tone before you send off a message.

2:27

And a little bit ago you mentioned arguments that you’re having back and forth.

I do like their platform so that you can have that communication there.

It was good to hear how it works and how it really can reduce a lot of conflict.

For people, yeah, that’s so true because what many parents underestimate is how ongoing communication patterns, even small daily interactions, shape the stability and emotional safety of their children after divorce.

2:54

And that’s why we’re really looking forward to sharing this episode with you.

We sat down with L Bar and Rebecca Parra, both experienced family law attorneys with more than two decades dedicated to serving children and families.

So if you’re listening and you’re thinking we’re just trying to survive day-to-day, take a breath.

3:15

You don’t have to solve everything today, but understanding how communication affects your children’s long term outcomes, that’s really powerful.

And if money is one of your reoccurring triggers, you’re not alone.

Most post divorce conflict, it’s not about the size of the expense, it’s about the surprise, the mistrust and the lack of a clear process and a place to communicate.

3:37

For sure.

And I think both you and I, Catherine, had that experience in our divorce.

I think myself more than you, I really remember those days of the, you know, the pickups and the drop offs, having just had a huge conversation about where are the kids are supposed to be and are they going to make it, Who’s going to be where, who’s going to pay for what?

3:59

And we back in those days barely had to e-mail.

And so the money spent in the court system litigating those issues was extraordinary.

And using a system like our family Wizard to manage the discussions and the division of shared expenses is it’s just such a powerful tool and mostly, mostly the children benefit.

4:28

Well, you know, even when they talked about the calendar, even though my son was an adult and my daughter was in college, you know, being able to put in the football schedule so that I didn’t have to hear what you never told me.

You never told me this.

Even though they my spouse received emails from the school, what the schedules were, you couldn’t go on the school website to find out.

4:49

It would have been so nice and easy just to put in there one time, not texting someone five times the same schedule one time and they have that one place to go to count on the information’s there.

I think it’s.

Fantastic.

Absolutely.

So if you feel like every text, e-mail or pickup exchange turns into tension, today’s conversation will give you practical tools and a new lens to look through.

5:14

Elle and Rebecca, welcome to WeChat Divorce.

Good morning.

Thank you so much for having us.

So good to be here, of course.

And for our listeners, we’re here today with Rebecca Para and Elle Barr, and I’m proud to introduce them.

5:31

Elle is an experienced family law attorney with more than two decades dedicated to serving children and families.

Currently, she serves as a guardian at Litem in Pittsburgh, PA and is the Education Coordinator for Our Family Wizard, where she educates judges, attorneys, and family professionals nationwide on tools that reduce conflict.

5:54

And we’re certainly going to be talking about the that today.

Elle works at the intersection of law, child development, and real world family dynamics, helping courts and parents prioritize children’s emotional safety.

Rebecca is an attorney licensed in Pennsylvania and Connecticut and a Florida Supreme Court Certified mediator in both family and dependency law.

6:19

She also holds micro credentials in AI prompt engineering and AI policy and governance from Purdue University.

Wow, what wonderful resumes you both have.

So before we get into tools and technology, can you each spend a couple minutes sharing what drew you to serving children in this capacity, in what you do in our family wizard and separately, and what keeps you committed to this work?

6:50

L If you want to go ahead and start and then we’ll Rebecca, we would like for you to share as well.

Absolutely, and thank you so much for the kind intro.

Thank you for having us on your podcast this morning.

As you mentioned, I’m a family law attorney.

7:05

I’m based in Pittsburgh, PA.

I’ve been practicing law for 22 years.

I have practiced exclusively family law.

I am a committed and dedicated advocate for children and for families.

I am able to go to bed every night and put my head on my pillow and feel really good about the work that I’m doing representing children in high conflict divorces and helping to improve outcomes and in some cases even transform outcomes.

7:35

It’s a wonderful place to be in.

And in addition to that, I have the opportunity to serve as an education coordinator for our Family Wizard, where I’m able to educate professionals all over the entire world about Co parenting.

Tools that help parents streamline Co parenting and also improve communication, increase accountability and reduce conflict so that they can focus on what’s important.

8:01

Raising happy, healthy and resilient children.

I love that because I always say that, you know, it’s not divorce that message your kids up, it’s how the parents behave before, during and after divorce that can mess your kids up.

Yes, Rebecca, would you like to share the audience too?

8:21

Oh, I would love to, yes.

Again, thank you so much for having us.

So, so excited and honored to be here.

I have been in family law for about that long as well.

I mean, it’s been a long time.

I did practice family law.

I still do pro bono work as I’m able via Zoom for Connecticut.

8:39

Been down in Florida about 12 years and I got into mediation so more recently I’ve been mediating both family and child welfare cases and I’ve always had a passion and I think that’s what even drove me to going to law school.

Passion to make a difference, a passion to change things, a passion to do better.

8:59

And I just continued, all my decisions are driven by that passion, including I also work at our Family Wizard and I am in a similar role to Elle where I get the privilege of presenting worldwide, really nationwide, just about the tools that can really improve the outcomes for parents and ultimately, you know, hopefully improve the outcomes for kiddos.

9:21

I’m also just very deeply committed to this.

I also believe strongly, you know, besides improving outcomes for children, it can be a safe tool for anyone going through domestic violence.

And, you know, it’s just an incredible tool.

And I love what I do.

9:37

I love being able to share about it.

Yeah, it’s been, it’s been a wonderful journey.

And it’s never the same thing day after day too.

I think anyone in family law can say it’s never dull.

Well, you know, we’re talking a lot about this, so can you explain what is our family wizard to our listeners?

9:56

Sure, I could share High level our family Wizard.

It is a resource for parents and for family law professionals like you, like me, like Rebecca, like Karen.

It’s an app and a website.

It helps parents manage all of the daily responsibilities and all of the complexities that come with raising children in two separate homes.

10:20

So what we know is parents, they come into the divorce process and they are completely emotionally overwhelmed, they are uncertain and they are unprepared to deal with all of those complexities of shared parenting.

The platform was very thoughtfully and carefully designed to assist parents with all the tools that are needed that anticipate every shared parenting need.

10:49

It’s also, as I mentioned, a resource for professionals.

It’s a tool that professionals can use, judges, attorneys, gals, mediators, financial planners, parenting coordinators, mental health professionals.

Any legal, financial or mental health professional or practitioner who’s working with a family going through a divorce or separation can use the platform to help the family to help improve outcomes.

11:15

So.

When you say that I’m someone going through a divorce, the tool so you help me communicate with my spouse, is that what you’re saying and how do I do that?

I I can jump in.

So what it would be is it the tool would be available to both parents.

11:31

You know, they can download the app, they can sign up on the website and then they register and we have, you know, tips and videos and start like ways.

We don’t leave anyone hanging when they sign up, if you will, they will always be provided resources.

11:48

You know how to send your first message, you want to place a call, How do you do that?

We try to.

And on the professional end, we also do a lot of demos for professionals like, so if they are connected to a parent, they’re just not going to be like, you know, deer in headlights.

12:04

Now what?

There is a lot of care and thought that goes into it because we never want anyone to feel overwhelmed because going through divorce and separation is going to be overwhelming enough.

The last thing they need is like, oh gosh, now I have this.

12:20

Whereas really it’s going to make their life so much easier and so much better.

Because I always say to any parents they speak with, it takes Co parenting from 20 spaces and really puts it in one.

And I think that compartmentalization can be so powerful.

Yeah, definitely, because a lot of emotions run high and it’s hard to keep track of all of your.

12:41

Communication.

You know, text messaging and emailing and that goes all over the place.

And how do you track one conversation into the other?

So I like that there’s a space that they can always have it right there and nobody.

Gets confused or forgets what was said because you can see it at all times in the same place it’s.

13:00

Kind of, you know.

Our process is 10 steps and we have.

All the documentation we do have internal, we’re only financial, right?

We’re assessing and doing their financial portrait.

But it is so helpful when there’s a streamlined process that you can.

Count on to go back.

To because divorces on any given day, the shit show, right?

13:19

So it’s so nice to be able to have that to rely on, which is why I love, I love the.

I love the.

Platform.

Excuse me, there’s my voice here.

And I really appreciate that it creates that space of communication, accountability and transparency with the parties.

13:41

And I, I know even with some of our clients that use our family wizard, they will express sometimes there’s frustration with a parent thinking the other parent is using the platform to assert a position that could or could not be true and they don’t know how to handle it.

14:02

But it’s way better than, as you all are saying, texting, emailing, where none of that is scrutinized and then to expect the attorneys and or the judge to filter through all of that to determine what is the best outcome for the children, right?

14:21

So our family wizard from Mylands really is effective and a a very useful tool for parents.

I like the, I like the part, sorry.

I like the part that Al you briefly went through with us, you know, putting the expenses in, you know, so for equitable distribution, sometimes there’s a reimbursement claim of some expenses, right?

14:50

And we see clients just like trying to write everything down and put it here and this is what they pay, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But I like how your system can allow them to equalize right there.

Yeah, it really it, it just simplifies the Co parenting expense tracking.

15:06

It’s a one stop shop for expenses.

I could share, I could give a high level overview of the actual feature, the functionality and the value and I’ll pass it over to Rebecca too to share more.

But the expense log, it’s where the parents can really, they can accurately track, manage and transfer funds for all of those shared child related expenses.

15:31

It’s generally used for the expenses outside of child support.

So we’re talking to all those extracurriculars, the unreimbursed medical expenses, childcare expenses.

So parents can go in, they can request and transfer funds for those expenses.

15:48

The expense log is set up so it’s color-coded.

It’s super user friendly.

When parents go in and submit requests for reimbursement, they can go on their cell phone.

They open up their app.

They could do it from the website too, but it’s super easy from the app.

16:03

They open it up, they fill out the fields, they attach a copy of the receipt, they click send, it goes to their Co parent.

Their Co parent can view it, their Co parent can deny it.

Let’s say there was no receipt attached or it was the wrong receipt, wrong receipt, or they can approve and then they could go to the next step and they could actually transfer funds through our our family wizard.

16:26

It’s called OFW pay.

It’s like a built in PayPal Venmo where the parents link up their checking accounts.

They just need their account number, their routing number.

And once they’re using it and they approve of expenses, there’s documentation from start to finish.

So from the time, the request from reimbursement, the receipt, the approval, and then the transfer of funds with documentation showing the date, the time, the last four digits of both bank accounts and the actual amount of money going from one account to the other.

16:54

So there’s a complete history and documentation, keeps it really streamlined, keeps it very organized.

Yeah, it’s a wonderful feature.

And for wearing the mediator hat, like when parents are in front of me and we’re working on a parenting plan, oftentimes they because I think the expense usually falls on page like 17, like they’re burnt, they’re tired.

17:16

They’re like, well, I don’t even care if a $25 co-pay gets lost and whatever.

I’m like, OK, your children, they’re young.

I’m like, wait till they’re teenagers and let’s talk braces.

If you need to send, you know that $1500 bill is going to matter.

17:34

You do not want that to get lost.

So in the parenting plan, if they have X amount of days to exchange a receipt, let’s say 4560 thirty, it’s a great tool for tracking that because you know it within if it could.

17:51

If it’s like if you send the receipt a year late, it could potentially get denied.

But if you’re sending it in a timely fashion, it’s really going to verify.

Look, I sent it to you, you owe it to me now.

So it’s a great tracking tool.

And again, $25 co-pays are great, but $1500 braces is not a fun expense.

18:10

What are some other tools that reduce conflict if it’s not just the expense tracking?

There are a lot of tools.

As I said, the platform was intentionally and thoughtfully designed to reduce conflict, increase accountability.

18:25

So I would say every single feature on the platform was built to reduce conflict.

So I’ll share a few.

I’ll turn over to Rebecca to share a few of the first one I’ll share is just our messaging system.

So it’s our most utilized feature.

Our messages, they’re timestamped not only when they’re sent, but also when they’re first viewed, holding the Co parent accountable for when they received that information, they read it, they viewed it.

18:52

In addition to the time stamping, there’s an all messages folder.

So every message, once it’s sent, it is stored and saved in that all message folder.

It can never ever be edited, deleted or retracted.

So once that message is sent, it’s saved, it’s stored, it’s locked.

19:08

I call it the single source of truth.

Again, holding parents accountable, reducing conflict.

And then the third part of the messaging feature that I think really, really helps to reduce conflict is our tone meter.

Our tone meter is like an emotional spell check.

19:25

It was recently updated with artificial intelligence, so the name of it is now Tone Meter AI.

As parents are typing in real time, they open up the app, they’re typing their message, they get actual feedback, they get a tone analysis letting them know if their message is appropriate.

19:42

If they’re sending a message which they may think is innocuous, completely harmless, like why are you always late for everything?

Our tone meters going to flag it.

Red bars are going to pop up.

It’s going to alert the parent that that is negative, and it’s going to provide the parent with a suggestion for rewriting that saying.

20:01

Being on time is important to our family.

Something that’s very, you know, something clean and clear that’s not going to be offensive or aggressive or upsetting.

And I would say that this is actually my favorite tool on the entire platform.

20:17

We did.

It’s amazing and it really helps.

It improves the communication.

It makes the communication more positive, more effective and more productive.

I mean, there’s endless tools.

So I’ll pass it over now for if you want to hear more from Rebecca.

Well, I could just, I just want, I just want to, I want to back up with that.

20:34

I could just see now you know.

Because of what we see, what we do, you know, you’re typing that and you really want to say what you want to say.

And now your tone meter AI is saying backup.

Let’s say it like.

This and.

Although it.

Works.

You have to.

Swallow your pride a little bit and say OK, it is better to do it this way.

20:52

Although I.

Although I really want to do it the other way, I like how this just gives you a little check like it’s OK let’s just reword this.

It doesn’t mean it doesn’t.

Discount your feelings so you can still have your feelings.

But to help you move through the process and to Co.

Parent better.

You know, you have this ability to make that change in your dialogue, which is so hard for people to do so that I think that would be probably one of my favorite tools.

21:17

It’s fantastic.

And just even just the moment, like, yeah, because in the heat of the moment, just a pause and just a reflection and like, oh, geez, OK, I didn’t mean to because I agree.

Like there’s probably things that you want to say even in life.

I mean, it’s just, but it’s the inner voice.

21:32

I teach my teenagers inner versus outer voice.

But yeah, I mean, that is probably my favorite tool as well.

But even our calendar is designed to, you know, keep the conflict down.

It’s always going to show a concrete record, similarly to the messages it’s going to show when an event was created, who created it?

21:51

Because oftentimes in mediation, I get, well, they never tell me about anything.

And as the mediator, I’m like, I don’t know.

I don’t know, maybe you’re telling me.

And so I think having that concrete record of, OK, let’s all look here.

Soccer practice was created at 4:55 PM for a 5:00 game.

22:10

Yeah, like maybe we can do a little better.

Again, it takes out the back and forth that I love and even I know it’s like we have a tool called the info bank.

It’s really a hyper organized storage tool.

And I think especially if you are going from one house to two, again, just from my perspective as a mediator, I think having that equal access to insurance cards, field trip forms, all things related to the children can really de escalate conflict and tension, if that makes sense.

22:40

But again, the whole app itself and platform is designed to keep the conflict.

We could talk for another hour, but I would say those are probably the highlight reel.

How?

Do you assign the parent to put the schedule in?

Is it their choice who’s putting all this information in there and who’s not participating?

22:59

That’s a good question.

So generally, if it’s a mediation, if they’re in court, it depends on the situation.

It depends on the family, the circumstances.

I know it’s a very lawyerly answer.

It depends.

But.

Each family is different, their own set of circumstances.

23:15

So sometimes if it’s super high conflict, they need a judge to order the which parent is going to upload information to the information bank.

This parent is going to add the parenting schedule to the calendar.

This parent is then going to Add all the extracurriculars, the events, the holidays to the calendar.

23:35

They could do it by agreement, by court order.

It depends on the family.

So I can talk about my favorite tool, I don’t know if it’s a tool of sorts, but it’s your checklist for shared children expenses.

Without fail, when I share that with our clients here at My Divorce solution, there’s line items that they’ve never even thought about.

23:58

And to your point, Rebecca, you know, sometimes your children are small, but as they grow their, their expenses are going to change.

And so parents do need to think about that.

And if we could share that as at the end of the podcast or with the podcast, that would be really great for our audience.

24:18

It’s just one of my favorite because I do a lot of the lifestyle analysis with our clients and that’s just a wonderful gift of sorts that we can share with them.

But I would like in this space then to talk about why this matters so much to families and and I think you all talk about it as the AC ES, the adverse childhood experience and and why this tool assist to make that better for them, because it really is about the outcome for the children.

24:59

Yeah, I could share a little bit about ACES.

So ACE, it’s ACES.

It stands for Adverse Childhood Experiences.

There is extensive public health research on how divorce impacts and effects children and Aces is in my opinion, one of the most important and influential studies on how divorce or separation impacts children long term.

25:25

So it’s a study from the late 90’s.

The study examined the long term impact of childhood trauma and found a direct Nexus between early adversity.

So children exposed to, you know, high conflict during a divorce and later negative health outcomes.

25:43

So later in life, all sorts of terrible health outcomes.

The researchers in this study, they identified 10 adverse childhood experiences.

So they broke them up into abuse, neglect, household dysfunction.

So there’s three different categories.

25:58

And then under household dysfunction, the last the last one is divorce or separation.

So out of the 10 eighths, the last one is divorce or separation.

And what we know today, and what Catherine mentioned at the beginning of the recording, is that it’s not the divorce itself or the separation itself.

26:18

It is the unmanaged conflict and the inability for the parents to meet the needs of each child.

That’s what makes divorce or separation an adverse childhood experience.

So that’s why it’s so, so important to educate parents so that they know their conflict, their actions, what they’re doing is not just going to have immediate consequences, but there are long term, you know, psychological, physical and health consequences for what they’re doing.

26:49

And with that in mind, our Family Wizard, you know, it’s something I bring up every meeting I participate in, whether it’s a development team meeting, a marketing team meeting, a sales team meeting.

At Our Family Wizard, I bring it up that we have to make sure our tools are reducing conflict and increasing accountability because that is what is going to prevent the divorce or separation from being an adverse childhood experience.

27:13

Gosh, Amen to that.

Because it’s not about the kids, it’s about your relationship with your spouse and you will have to Co parent.

And now you know, we have a lot of later in life divorces.

So your Co grandparenting, you know, you got married for a reason and you’re getting divorced for a reason.

27:31

But the kids were not a part of that.

So to sum this up, basically we want to reduce conflict and increase accountability.

You can’t say that better.

I’m all for your platform, our family wizard.

I think it’s great.

27:46

And just to add that tool, what the two of you are doing in your own practices, I commend that because I think it’s fantastic.

And it’s basically why Karen and I started my divorce solution, because we don’t believe there’s two attorneys that need to collect the same data.

You know, you should be able to have a symmetry of information.

28:04

Why are you paying two people to collect the same bank statement?

It’s ridiculous.

That money could be spent for your children, their education, you know, and then bring the information to the table and share that information.

And then if you have to go the conflict way, the litigation way, then you do.

28:20

But you can go to mediation or someplace else.

And using your platform in line with that is how we will change the way people go through the divorce process.

So thank you both so much for being here with us today.

We really appreciate the conversation.

Thank you.

So much for having us.

29:25

Did we?

Did we mention before we get off here, our new individual can find you?

I can, I might.

Yeah.

I my e-mail is rperra@ourfamilywizard.com rebeccaanditsrperra@ourfamilywizard.com.

29:41

And mine is similar.

It’s M barsomlikemarybelikeboyarr@ourfamilywizard.com and you could find endless resources on our website at www.ourfamilywizard.com.

29:57

And Catherine and Karen just posted an article recently on our resource page.

It’s called From Chaos to Clarity, the financial portrait approach to kids travel expensive, it’s expenses.

It’s a very insightful article.

30:12

I think it would benefit a actually every family with kids going through a divorce or separation because I don’t know a single family does not have a child in some type of sport or extracurricular activity where there are expenses related to that activity.

30:29

It really goes through it, breaks it down and gives a lot of really helpful advice.

Thank.

You.

And for anyone listening, if Co parenting communication and money conversations are recurring trigger, don’t just label it as just how it is.

This is a fantastic reef resource for all of you.

30:47

Systems matter, tools matter, clarity measures.

So thanks for listening to WeChat divorce.

If this episode helped you, please share it with someone who needs a calmer path forward.

Thank you again, Ellen, Rebecca.

Thanks for joining us on another episode of WeChat Divorce.

31:06

We hope this episode was informative and supportive on your divorce journey.

If you’re looking for more support for navigating divorce with confidence and clarity, head over to azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more podcast episodes, divorce events, and resources for your divorce.

31:24

We’ll see you back here for our next episode.