Forensic Accounting in Divorce: What It Can (and Can’t) Do, with Sarah Nanchanatt

0:01

Welcome to We Chat Divorce, hosted by Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA.

Each episode we sit down with divorced professionals and industry experts to provide insights and frank discussions about real people, real situations, and real divorce to help you achieve your best life post divorce.

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This episode of We Chat Divorce is brought to you by My Divorce Solution, offering divorce financial planning so clients can secure the divorce settlement they deserve.

Visit azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ to request access.

Divorce brings your entire financial life into focus and that can create a lot of questions, especially when things feel more complicated than you.

0:48

Expected.

And sometimes you simply need help understanding the story your numbers are telling.

Not every case requires A forensic review, but in certain situations having.

That level of expertise.

On your team can provide clarity when things appear inconsistent or unusually complex.

1:09

At MDS We begin with the financial portrait, your complete, verified view of your marital estate.

When deeper investigation is needed, a forensic accountant can help analyze the specific transactions, business issues, or financial patterns that need a closer look.

1:27

Today’s.

Guest explains how that.

Works what what it looks.

Like in practice and when this type of support may be helpful.

Welcome back.

To We Chat, divorce brought.

To you by My Divorce Solution.

I’m Karen Chellew, legal liaison and Co founder of My Divorce Solution, helping you move through.

1:45

The legal aspects of.

Divorce with clarity and confidence.

And I’m Catherine Shanahan, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and your partner in making informed financial decisions through every stage of divorce.

Our guest today is Sarah.

Nanchanan, forensic accountant, business valuation expert and founder of SN Forensics.

2:05

She’s here to shed.

Light on what forensic accounting actually is, when it may be.

Useful.

And what clients can.

Expect if their case requires.

This level of financial analysis.

I’m excited about this conversation because it I hope it gives everyone a clearer understanding of a role of a forensic accountant because many people hear that they need to hire a forensic accountant, but they don’t really understand what the outcome will be.

2:31

We have really high expectations.

When you hear forensic accountant, we think that they’re going to be this be all end all to the deceit we think our spouse has been doing behind our backs.

So let’s get into this conversation, Karen.

Absolutely.

2:48

Sarah, welcome to WeChat Divorce.

Thanks so much for having me.

Of course, we’re so happy to have you.

And I personally, I know Catherine is too, looking forward to this conversation of business evaluations.

But before we begin, let me take a moment to introduce you to our listeners.

3:07

Sarah is a seasoned forensic accountant and business valuation expert and the owner and principal of SN Forensics, LLC, based in New York City.

With a.

Career spanning Charles River Associates and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, FENRA as we all know it.

3:26

Sarah has LED.

Complex financial investigations across industries, from white collar crime and FCPA violations to partnership disputes and matrimonial matters.

Today, through SN Forensics, she helps clients uncover the truth behind the numbers, resolving accounting disputes, valuing businesses and bringing financial clarity to high.

3:48

State.

Cases including divorce.

So, Sarah.

I would love.

To hear from you, your journey, first of all, it sounds very impressive and how you’ve ended up.

Where you are today.

Yeah.

Thank you so much and thank you for that wonderful introduction.

4:07

So it’s so interesting.

I have had my own firm for a little over a year now.

And so I’ve met so many different practitioners who have gone solo.

And I have to say that it was never my plan.

It kind of just organically happened, which is why I think it was.

4:22

It’s been so great and so fun.

And so every time I went through the careers I, you know, I did, I worked at Charles River, at FINRA, as you said, I’ve also worked in house in the insurance industry.

Something always felt like it was missing for me and I didn’t know what that was until I started branching out into my own firm and I learned about this other world of forensics.

4:44

So when you work at a big firm like a Charles River, you’re working on $100 million disputes, billion dollar companies, really, really high level.

But there’s a world of forensics sticks out there with the average person like you and me who are going through a divorce.

5:01

They have a family dispute.

And that’s where I find so much purpose in the work.

So it’s not just enjoying the work, but feeling like my work is making a difference or it’s helping someone as I do it.

And that’s what I’ve really loved in this solo practice is getting some of those smaller, more personal cases for divorce specifically.

5:25

I’m child of divorce.

My parents got divorced when I was younger.

So I know kind of some of the obstacles that people go through that women may face during it.

And so I, I take that personally.

And I want to make sure that, as you know, I’m working on a case that I’m the right fit for someone and that I can help them as best as possible figure out what’s going on in their situation.

5:51

That’s awesome and amazing and good for you because we need.

More people like you.

In our.

World of divorce for sure.

But what we need to understand is where the role of a forensic accountant plays, because I hate to say this, but more often than not, they are acting as glorified bookkeepers for a lot of clients in divorce because an attorney wants to, you know, secure their forensic to go to court for them.

6:16

But not everybody needs a forensic.

And I think that from what I hear about you is that that’s your approach.

I mean, you really just want to go in where you’re at.

Your expertise is actually needed.

Absolutely.

And I also have learned through this process all the other great individuals who can be involved when you don’t need a forensic accountant.

6:35

So the work, you know, that Karen does, helping gather documents, get everything ready together for the case, working with CDFA partners who help create those marital balance sheets of all of the assets.

So whenever I have a consult with someone, I kind of go through, I’m like, OK, have you tried this person?

6:54

Have you tried that person?

And now we’re at the point where we have a larger situation.

But part of the challenge with forensics is it is expensive.

You know, no matter how affordable I try to be it, it does cost money.

And you have to make sure that the potential value is more than my fees.

7:13

And so that’s another thing that I always check with people.

I’m like, OK, you know, I had a case.

This woman came to me.

It was a multi $1,000,000 divorce.

And she said for six months my husband was having an affair.

He got a room at the Holiday Inn once a week.

I’m like, OK, in my head, $200 a night, 4 * a month, six months, let me run it through.

7:34

And I was like, that still doesn’t add up to my fees.

And that doesn’t make sense based on the number of assets you’re talking about.

You’ve already identified the transactions, which is a step ahead of a lot of people.

And so if you’re thinking of a marital waste claim and we’re not, we’re looking at maybe, you know, 24105 thousand.

7:56

Whatever the answer is, it doesn’t make sense to bring in a forensic accountant at that time.

So that’s something I really try to suss out with my clients of what’s at stake.

If it’s a business valuation and it’s going to cost us 3 to $5000 to do an indication of value, is the business worth at least $10,000, at least $20,000, at least $30,000 and figuring out some of those questions before we dive into the work.

8:24

I would just like to pause there.

And back up a.

Little bit for our.

Listeners here today.

Because a lot of people.

Their relationship with their attorney is they go in and they say this is what we.

Have and to your.

Point, these are my concerns.

And immediately the attorney is going to say, because that’s the only response they can have is well, we need a forensic.

8:48

As a matter of fact, I was just on a call with a new client and her attorney this week where some of that was coming up with the business and she had questions about, well, you know.

What about all of these?

Variables that may impact the value of the business.

Relative to their.

9:04

Relationship and her getting kicked out of the company.

So you know, the what people don’t understand, Sarah, is that the only response your attorney typically gives is we need a forensic because they don’t have any other option for.

9:22

A reply to you SO.

When I was on the.

Call, I said, all right, let’s let’s play this forward.

Let’s at least get.

Prepared.

Let’s get the documents, because that’s what my divorce solution does.

With our team of Cdfas and legal liaisons, we.

Help people prepare like.

9:38

This is what we would be assessing and then if the team.

Felt like a.

Forensic was needed, then there’s.

A specific scope of work.

And so when people can approach their valuations from that vantage point, it’s much more efficient and productive and cost effective.

9:58

Very relative to what you’re saying, is it worth the investment in a forensic or can we get pretty far down the road before we have to make that decision?

And that’s a great point.

And I know that we’ve, you know, been in a consultation together.

And that’s why I like having the whole team involved.

10:15

And I want the attorney to be there.

And it’s like, OK, why was your initial thought, the forensics, then talking to the legal support team, the CDFA, what are you seeing in the documents?

And really making sure, like, is this the right decision?

And sometimes too, it depends where they’re at in the divorce process.

10:34

I’ve had consultations with couples in mediation where someone’s offered a buyout and we haven’t looked through all the documents, but we talked to them and we’re like, off the top of my head, I don’t know what your valuations going to be, but your buyout seems pretty reasonable.

10:50

And if you’re able to have these conversations, can you get to the bottom line together without needing to bring someone like me in?

So it does depend on what the financials say, what documents we have.

You know, a lot of times concerns about businesses are because they’re cash run and, and I like to say that we can find things in the numbers, but we are not miracle workers.

11:15

If someone walks in and hands you $100 and then for your business and then you go and pay your employee that same $100 bill and you never put it in a cash register, you never recorded it, there’s there’s nothing we can do with that.

11:31

So it also depends kind of the circumstances and that’s a lot of the concerns I see are people say, Oh well, it’s cash operated there.

We’re we’re not going to be the miracle workers that that figure out that solution.

And I don’t want to charge people and give them that impression that we could.

11:50

Well, that’s the a really important point because again, we’ll go back to the attorney saying we have to get a forensic.

You’re saying it’s a cash business and we have to verify income available for support and we need a forensic to find that.

And OK.

And so now me as the client, I’m thinking, oh, this, this is going to be a miracle, right.

12:07

And to your point, the question has to be asked, can you trace this cash before you hire this your forensic?

Because if they are honest like you, Sarah, they’re going to say, no, I can’t, I can’t make up a number.

And so then you get to process that and say, is it worth hiring to, to carry on, you know, because the, the individual hiring you doesn’t understand that.

12:32

All they understand is their emotions.

And I need to prove that my spouse did this and, and this person is the answer.

And they’re going to tell me this.

And then they get these reports back and we see the reports and it doesn’t tell them anything.

And, you know, just like you said, a lot of these decisions are emotionally charged.

12:50

And a lot of times, you know, I think we’re as a society starting to move away from this.

But there are still a lot of divorces when one spouse has been completely shut out from the finances and they don’t know.

And so they’re absolutely right to ask questions.

13:06

But like Karen said, you have to look at the documents.

And are there concerns supported in the documents or is it just this long list of what ifs because they’ve never been involved?

And so I think forensics can get very expensive very quickly if you chase down all of these different rabbit holes.

13:26

And so a lot of times too, when I have a consultation, it’s about, OK, what’s our top three largest dollar value concerns and let’s start there.

And then let’s see what do those add up to and does it make sense to move forward?

13:44

For sure.

So when you are.

Looking through these documents and identifying you know.

What are the top 3?

Issues, what are some of the red flags or patterns that you look for?

And let’s talk about businesses first, because that’s really for things come into.

14:02

Play a lot.

For people, especially now post pandemic, so many businesses were started.

So what are some red flags or patterns that you look for?

Yeah.

So that’s a great question and a lot of it will be what we see in the tax returns or the business records as the income versus the lifestyle of the individual or the couple.

14:25

So I actually just did a training on this last week.

So an example we had is OK, he said he made $20,000 a year, owned a contracting business.

His wife was a part time teacher.

She brought in $25,000 a year, their mortgage was $10,000 a month.

14:42

They sent their kids to private school.

They had brand new luxury cars.

And so that’s an immediate red flag of there is more money coming from this business than they’re reporting.

And when you do the business valuation, it’s so important to capture all of that income and all of those personal expenditures to make sure you’re getting the true value of the business.

15:04

So I’d say the biggest red flag is low income, high lifestyle, or even just a normal, you know, average lifestyle.

When you’re reporting $0.00 in income from your business, a lot of times the spouse will say it’s worth nothing.

15:21

Well then why do you do it?

You know, I’m a business owner, you’re a business owner.

It’s not easy.

There is risk, there is liability, there’s countless sleepless nights.

If you are making $0.00 a year, why are you not just working somewhere where you can bring home AW2 paycheck that’s steady and consistent?

15:41

So those are the the largest red flags, I’d say also as we dive into the books, you’ll see the credit card payments to personal credit cards, the car payments, things like that.

15:56

That’s just easy for someone to switch it from their personal to their business.

And as long as no one’s looking, they never question it.

And so, you know, when I take on a business valuation, the first conversation I always have is, you know, how do we feel about the tax returns?

16:16

Do we feel it’s indicative of what actually happened?

And usually if I have the spouse who doesn’t own the business and I’m working with them, 97% of the time the answer is no.

I know it’s not accurate.

I know we paid our mortgage through the business.

16:31

I know my son’s private school education came through the business.

And that’s when we’re going to have to really parse through the financials to figure out the true value.

Which is a nice thing to hear because a lot of times if you’re not the moneyed spouse, you’d think you don’t know anything.

16:48

And when you have these conversations, you know, we do this all the time when we do our portrait, right?

So when we have these conversations, it’s nice to see somebody realize they know more than they thought they knew.

Yeah.

And you know, just to layer on about the the personal expenses.

17:04

Which we we all see.

On the tax returns and it is our experience that.

A.

Whole handful of attorneys and forensics will just take that bottom number of the tax return and sound fairly confident that that’s the business.

17:20

Value which surprises.

Me so often.

But we also have where.

You know family members are are paid employees, retirement accounts, division of W2 wages or distributions for tax purposes, which in and of itself isn’t.

17:39

Illegal.

Or so the attorneys.

Say, right.

And it’s a very different analysis, I think.

And this is what you’re saying relative to the business value in those situations.

And then how you unpack that for a?

17:54

Divorce.

Absolutely.

And you know, we discussed a little bit before, when we before we recorded that it’s also different in each state.

So some states will have the fair market value standard, some have fair value, some states have their own value.

So when it comes to a divorce, you first have to understand, you know how the state values it because it’s different than if you’re just placing the business up for sale unless it’s a fair market value.

18:20

And then the other thing that we do when we do a fair market value business valuation is we also have access to something called reasonable compensation RC reports.

And so we’ll pull just like you’re saying about W2.

18:35

If it’s an S Corp and they’re supposed to be paying themselves W2 wages, we can get as granular as they work this job in this county, they spend this number of hours, what should their salary be?

And then we make those normalization adjustments as we go through the business valuation.

18:53

Or for instance, you know, we think that labor and wages is supposed to be 40% of revenue based on comparable companies, but it’s 90% of revenue because you’re paying your kids, you’re paying your nanny through the business, you’re doing whatever.

19:08

So by doing that, we kind of can see as well, OK, this is a red flag.

This doesn’t make sense.

And I think one of the most challenging parts of the forensic is you have to rely on the data your client gives you in order to do it.

19:25

And so if someone just gave me the tax returns, they’re like, I swear on my child’s life that this is accurate.

I then have to make the decision of, can I proceed with this business valuation?

Or are there enough red flags at first review that I say, no, I’m sorry, I have to pass on this engagement?

19:45

And so that’s kind of the the place we’re put in.

And so a lot of forensics might say, you know what, my client told me this was true.

I can only rely on what they give me.

They told me there’s nothing else.

It’s either I take it and I do it this way or I lose out on the work.

20:01

Yeah.

Well, I think the question to ask a forensic then to that point is if I only supply you with this information, will you be able to give me an accurate report?

But people do not know to ask that they think a tax return is an accurate report.

20:18

So, you know, I, I listening to this, I really appreciate that you’re putting that out there because I’ve seen reports that came back and said, you know, they still paid the person $20,000.

And the report says I didn’t.

I wasn’t able to complete the full report, but they still charged the $20,000.

20:38

That’s true.

And that’s part of it too, of, you know, as a forensic, we always put disclaimers.

These are the limiting conditions that allowed us to do this report.

And I could only rely upon what my client gave me.

If I find out that this is not true, I reserve the right to update my calculation.

20:53

Very common disclaimers, but so that protects the forensic individual, but what protects the person who you know was trying to get this business valuation?

And that’s, that’s what’s tricky, especially when you have the non business owning spouse.

You can only go as far you can do discovery request motion to compel, you can try to subpoena tax return transcripts.

21:16

You can try to do all these things, but you’re only as good as the information that you can get.

So.

Sarah, I am so happy that you’re bringing this up.

Because our work with our.

Clients here at My Divorce Solution, we can’t give legal advice.

21:34

We don’t have any attorneys.

Here, but we are really.

Good at asking questions.

So we will hop on a call with an attorney when there’s businesses or, and or real estate involved and say this is what we see, this is what we need.

How do we get it?

21:51

So that the forensics or the evaluators have the best information possible.

To give us the best reports, because short of that, there’s a gap.

In that communication, the clients don’t know and the attorneys make us assumptions well.

This is all we have so here.

Forensic use it and give us your best analysis.

22:10

We run into that all the time and I am very proud of the NDS.

Process that it it’s really good.

About asking the correct questions so that we can.

Build out all of the.

Key and supporting documents to support the marital estate or the Community property so that in turn, the professionals can do their best work.

22:33

Yeah, absolutely.

And that’s so important.

And you know, we’ll work with the attorneys to try to get the best information.

So right now I have a case where like I’m helping to draft interrogatories because we are getting nowhere and we need this information in order to understand how the business works.

22:49

And so I’ll work with the attorney, but but there’s only so much we can do because they can choose not to respond or all of these things.

And so that’s, I think also at the beginning when I mentioned really being a part of the team and working together and trying to make sure everyone is in the same page.

23:11

That also goes to my point that a lot of times I say engage a forensic before you think you need it because they can help your attorney draft the document request list, draft the discovery list, help ask those questions that the client themselves don’t know how to ask.

23:29

Because more often than not, you get pulled in three weeks before trial.

You only have what’s in front of you and you have to make the best of it.

But there are some situations where you can’t do it.

There’s not enough information.

You would be too biased.

And so if a situation is like, OK, super ready flags, we’re going to need forensics, bring them in at the beginning, maybe it’s 2-3 hours of chargeable time.

23:54

And then, you know, we don’t work for six months and then we pick up again.

But I would rather be a part of the team that’s requesting those documents and getting that information we need than being, you know, on the back end with incomplete information.

24:10

Well, that’s kind of contradictory to what we’re saying, isn’t it, though?

Because if we don’t know if we need the forensic, why are we hiring them before we know that?

So I love how you can help with the interrogatories because a lot of times we see subpoenas go out and they don’t even subpoena the right information.

So I, I do love that part of it, but I don’t love, let’s hire the forensic when we don’t even know if we need one in divorce.

24:29

Because really less than 10% of the cases go to, to go to trial.

But can they come to you and say, I just want to hire you to help with interrogatories and, and subpoenas?

Like can they just have that as their scope or do they have to have you as the whole scope?

Because I do like this limited scope approach.

24:47

Yeah, we can definitely help in a limited scope.

And the reason I say it is there are some cases that just right off the bat, you know, you’re gonna need a forensic.

So if there’s a business valuation involved that’s complicated or potentially high value, if there is marital versus separate property claims, like there are just some cases where, you know, okay, we’re gonna need a forensic no matter what, but you know, let’s request the documents, let’s get it and then let’s hire them.

25:16

So those are the types of cases where I’m like, bring us in, let us help with the document request list.

We can sit around for six months not charging you.

You don’t need to, you know, pay us for the time we’re waiting, but it helps to make sure that the work on the back end is helpful.

So I think there’s, there’s two kinds of situations.

25:34

There’s the ones that, OK, maybe you don’t need us.

Let’s wait and see what documents come in and how your other professionals can help you.

And then there’s, you know, the high net worth cases where you’re like, no matter what, we know we’re going to have to bring someone in.

Let’s bring them in early enough.

25:50

To your second question, we so as a forensic, you can kind of serve as two roles.

You can serve as a consultant or you can serve as an expert witness.

Sometimes it’s hard to serve as both on the same engagement.

So it’s a conversation to have with the attorney.

But I’ve been brought in on cases with attorneys where they’re like, hey, we’re going to get a neutral business valuator.

26:11

We’ve already been assigned one from the court, but can you help us prepare what we need, what we need to ask, what the documents show, what red flags are involved so that we know to ask those questions as we move forward.

So that’s when we can absolutely serve in a consulting role.

26:30

But then for that same case, we wouldn’t be able to be the neutral expert.

So it kind of depends on, you know, if the attorney just wants our help on the sidelines.

We’ve I’ve helped prepare attorneys for depositions where they’re like, we really don’t think we’re going to go to trial, but we need to nail this deposition because there’s so much money movement and we don’t understand it.

26:52

So we’ll come in, we’ll do the analysis, we’ll help the attorney prepare the questions for deposition, even though we’re not writing an expert report and ultimately testifying at trial.

That’s very interesting.

I know that you could do that.

And and 2nd, I would just want to follow that up with do all forensic accountants do business valuations?

27:13

Not all forensic accountants do.

I’d say if you’re a forensic accountant in the matrimonial space, usually your firm has some sort of business valuation offering, but I’ve worked with some that don’t do any at all.

So that’s also an important question to ask because if you’re in involving A forensic accountant or a business valuation expert, sometimes you need forensic accounting and business valuation in the same engagement.

27:41

So I have one right now where we don’t agree with the tax returns.

We think that there are personal expenses through the business.

So we’re going to have to do a forensic reconstruction of their books to then do the business valuation.

We can do that all in house, but it does get expensive if you need one expert to do the forensic reconstruction and then you hand it to another for the business valuation component.

28:05

So can you take a spouse’s forensic report and on a consultancy agreement review that to see if it’s worth Oh, no, Then you wouldn’t be able to see if it’s worth getting your own forensic report.

28:21

Or you say, you know what, this is pretty, there might be a couple of little red flags here, but really, do you?

You don’t really need to pay for another one.

You can go on this.

So what I would do in that case is I would be engaged as an expert and then we can do what’s called a rebuttal report if it’s necessary.

28:38

But if you’re questioning, okay, we should engage in a forensic expert.

And I just want to, you know, disclaim, like just because you hire a forensic accountant doesn’t mean it’s a $20,000 retainer.

It’s this huge engagement.

But you know, if someone engages me and I say, okay, you know, let’s do a small retainer, we’ll do the review and if we’re going to write the report, I’ll ask for replenishment.

28:58

So I think that that sometimes like hiring the forensic accountant doesn’t mean that like $20,000 outlay at the beginning.

It just means you have someone on your team if you need it.

And So what we would do is review the report.

29:13

If it, you know, we see red flags, we think we can rebut it.

We’ll do what’s called a rebuttal analysis where we’ll write a report and we’ll say This is why this is wrong, and then we’ll submit it.

And then we can testify to our review of their report.

And a lot of times that is a way that I talk to clients as well.

29:30

They say, you know, I want to hire you to do forensics.

My husband has a forensic expert.

And I’ll say, all right, well, let’s pause.

We don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

We don’t need to start from scratch.

Let’s wait till their report comes in and just hire me as a rebuttal expert.

Instead of I write something, they rebut it, they write something, I rebut it, and now you’re spending 20, thirty, $40,000 for us to go back and forth over who has a typo type of a thing.

29:56

Exactly.

That’s my point.

Yeah, I like that.

I know about the rebuttal report and the other demystification I would like to set out here is, you know, you mentioned something earlier, you know, if you say my spouse paid everything through cash and, and you’re saying, wait a minute, I can’t track cash, can you track outside foreign foreign accounts?

30:19

Because that’s the other one.

You know, the big mystery of I know my spouse set up foreign accounts everywhere and I need you to find those foreign accounts.

You know, can you find foreign accounts easily?

So just out of the blue, it’s it’s the money’s never touched their bank account.

30:37

That’s not something I can do.

There are some private investigators who can do that.

That’s not in my wheelhouse.

What I can do is a couple of things.

One, are we seeing transfers from any of your current accounts to those accounts?

And then once we can identify that account, we can help your attorney figure out a subpoena request to get that information. 2 is OK, let’s take a look at your husband’s W2.

31:03

He made $200,000 last year.

Well, I only see $500 from every one of his paychecks deposited in this account.

So I know there’s something else out there.

I don’t know where it is, I can’t find it.

But when it comes to interrogatories or questions or discovery requests, we can say, hey, we know you have another account because you’re not depositing your paychecks in your in the accounts you’ve given us.

31:29

And so that’s kind of how we would work it up like either if we can see the transfer of flow of monies or if there are like you sold a house, you sold it for 900,000, we see a $100,000 deposit in the bank account.

Where did the 800,000 go?

That’s great.

31:47

And that’s something that.

I valued.

When you and I first.

Spoke Sarah.

That you take a case.

At face value and then.

We develop a scope.

Together along with the attorney.

Because you know our whole approach.

32:05

Is getting you prepared, getting you to know as much as you can put together and then decide where to spend your money, how to spend your money and you know, is it going to have a the financial impact that you’re hoping and so.

These are the odds.

32:21

And so that really.

Is such a great approach.

From a forensic because so often a forensic will be hired and we asked the client or the attorney what.

Is the scope of work well we.

Don’t know and they’ve already blown through the retainer.

32:39

Just to have just to receive.

Documents without a scope of.

Work.

So I really value that approach of.

Yours and you know we’re happy here at my divorce solution that when we’re.

Ready to reach out?

32:54

To you, you know you.

Take it where it is.

And then you give.

Feedback as to what?

You can deliver and you.

Take the work that that.

They’ve already completed and use.

It so that’s that’s valuable.

And an effective and an efficient way to approach.

33:12

A case for sure.

Absolutely.

And I just took a case this week where there’s a settlement offer on the table and my entire scope is could there be more we’re missing out on?

And so it’s not do this whole forensic analysis, figure out what’s marital, what’s separate.

33:31

It’s take all the information we have, look at it and say, OK, if we look at this account and we see these deposits in a best case scenario, can we add everything up and does it equal the settlement, yes or no?

33:47

And that’s such a smaller engagement.

We’re doing things efficiently, really trying to just help make an informed decision because that’s the other thing that I find a lot, especially with the non moneyed spouse, is there panic?

34:02

And their concern is that they’re leaving something on the table that they don’t know about.

And so even just having someone for, you know, a few $1000 or it could be more depending on the size of the case, review everything and say, OK, if all of this went in your favor, which it probably would not, here’s what you could end up with versus here’s what the settlement is and having that informed decision making power that they wouldn’t have otherwise.

34:34

Yeah.

So we before we wrap up, let’s just leave our listeners with a few meaningful takeaways for today’s conversation.

And it’s, it’s all boiling down to understanding what the outcome could or could not be, understanding what information you need to make really good informed financial decisions and understanding what your other professional can do.

34:57

You know, it’s not always just jump into the deep end of the pool.

It is knowing that you can get a forensic on a consulting agreement or just get them on your neutral expert or just understand what their role is and what data that they need.

35:15

And if you can supply that data, you know, because if you can’t, don’t hire people just to do things and then get upset that you paid for something not knowing what the outcome would be.

You have to know what the deliverable be will be to know if it’s worth it for you to go down that rabbit hole or not, and and having your team together to make those decisions is going to be your best approach moving forward.

35:39

Yeah, absolutely.

The one thing I would just add to that is, you know, as a forensic expert, no matter who hires us, we still are independent in the work when we do.

So I would just caution when we say what we know the outcome is going to be.

35:55

Your forensic expert can never guarantee that it’s going to be like this is what the numbers are going to say, but you can know what analysis they can do to give you information that will help inform your decisions.

Yes, thank you for that clarification.

36:12

That’s exactly what I was trying to say.

But sometimes I just talk around in a circle.

Thank you for that.

Yeah, of course.

Thank you guys both so much for having me.

Of course, thank you for being here.

And for the clarity you’ve brought to.

Such a misunderstood.

Part of the divorce.

Process all around.

36:29

It’s refreshing to talk about the why behind forensic accounting and not just a technical side.

Sarah, can you quickly share with our listeners where they can find you and learn more about your work?

Yeah, absolutely.

So you can visit me on my website, which is at snforensics.com.

36:47

You can book a consultation with us directly on the website.

If you come through my divorce solutions, we offer free consultations.

So you can always reach out to Karen or Catherine or or anyone else on your team.

And we can set up a free consult and just have a conversation and I’ll learn about the facts of your case and see, does forensics make sense?

37:09

Are there other options for you?

Potential fees versus, you know, potential outcomes that could occur based on the analysis and really just be able to make informed decisions as you move forward in your case.

Don’t forget to like or share this episode.

37:26

If you have any questions or a topic you’d like us to explore, we’d love hearing from you.

You can e-mail us anytime at WeChat at ck11.net.

So until next time, take a breath, protect your peace, and let knowledge be your power.

Thanks for joining us on another episode of WeChat Divorce.

37:45

We hope this episode was informative and supportive on your divorce journey.

If you're looking for more support for navigating divorce with confidence and clarity, head over to azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more podcast episodes, divorce events, and resources for your divorce.

38:04

We’ll see you back here for our next episode.

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