180. Divorce, Mortgages, and the Cost of Bad Decisions with Jody Bruns

0:01

Welcome to We Chat Divorce, hosted by Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA.

Each episode we sit down with divorce professionals and industry experts to provide insights and frank discussions about real people, real situations, and real divorce to help you achieve your best life post divorce.

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This episode of We Chat Divorce is brought to you by My Divorce Solution, offering divorce financial planning so clients can secure the divorce settlement they deserve.

Visit azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ to request access.

Welcome back to We Chat Divorce, brought to you by My Divorce Solution.

0:44

I’m Karen Chellew, your legal liaison, helping you move through the divorce process with clarity and confidence.

And I’m Catherine Shanahan, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and your partner in navigating the financial realities of divorce.

We believe that clarity, both emotional and financial, is is the foundation for making smart, empowered decisions about your future.

1:05

I know today we’re talking to Jody and she is a CDLP.

Yep, Certified divorce lending professional that she created the certification program for.

That’s amazing.

It is amazing like to find the need, which we’ll, I guess, we’ll, I bet you she’s probably gone through something, which is why, why we all do this right, this work now.

1:28

But you know, it is the, it is the conversation to be had because with interest rates the way they are and people needing to refinance or assume a mortgage, what’s the difference between them?

But it’s scary because it’s probably most people’s biggest asset.

Yeah, it is.

1:45

And then there’s all these creative approaches to people mediating or doing kitchen table negotiations or nesting that can, you know, seem like a really good option on his face.

But it’s really important that people know the financial impact, both short term and long term.

2:04

And there’s so many factors and nuances that people would not even know about unless something went South.

So today we are diving into one of the most important and most often misunderstood parts of divorce.

The intersection of real estate, mortgages and financial separation.

2:22

So whether you’re deciding to keep the house, sell it, or protect your equity, these decisions do have long term consequences.

Yes, and our guest today is the nation’s leading expert on this subject.

And she’s she’s here to help us break it down so you can make smarter, more strategic decisions during and after divorce.

2:41

We’re thrilled to welcome Jodi Bronze to the show today.

Welcome, Jodi.

Hi, thanks for having me.

Of course, thanks for being here.

Jodi is the founder of the Certified Divorce Lending Professional Certification and the creator of the divorce mortgage planning profession.

2:59

With more than 35 years in mortgage and finance, she’s recognized as the go to resource for navigating the complex relationship between divorce, real estate and lending.

I think the statistic there is 80, more than 80% of divorces include this type of transaction.

3:18

Through her work, Jodi helps both divorcing homeowners and the professionals who serve them make informed housing decisions with strategy, clarity and confidence.

She’s also a passionate speaker, sharing insights on financial recovery, equity protection, and turning complexity into clarity.

3:38

Jodi, again, welcome to WeChat Divorce.

Thank you.

We just recently learned that you have quite the crew of grandchildren.

Yeah, you should see my mantle at Christmas time.

That’s so great, love it.

3:55

So before we dive in, can you share a bit about your journey and how you came to specialize in this niche of divorce mortgage planning?

Yeah, absolutely.

Great question.

So unfortunately like many of us in the divorce space, I was myself in divorce and I had already been a long time mortgage professional.

4:17

And so when I found myself going through the divorcing homeowner journey, I was very happy.

I knew what I did, but it soon became very evident what I didn’t know and what I didn’t know was the aspect of family law, financial and tax planning, the real property law as it all entangled the mortgage and the marital home and other real property.

4:45

And so after my divorce and seeing the disconnect between all of the professionals involved, I started studying family law.

I started really digging into the financial and tax aspect of it.

And I started, you know, working my own divorce mortgage planning practice.

5:05

And then when I moved back to Illinois, I was working with some Chicago attorneys and they are the ones that suggested that I write a curriculum because they loved my educational approach.

And so that’s where the CDLP certification came from.

5:22

And we have really grown it into a full blown profession.

And you know, I’m sure we’ll get into it, but understanding the difference between divorce lending, which is just doing a loan for somebody going through divorce, and what we’ve built has really now become known as divorce mortgage planning.

5:45

So I’m really proud of what we’ve built.

For sure.

So for so many people, the family home feels like a safety net, right?

Typically one spouse or the other or both really are connected to that home.

How do you help clients balance the emotional attachment with the financial realities?

6:06

Well, obviously every situation is different, right?

Every divorce is unique, the emotions are different and it is almost like there’s no boiler plate, one-size-fits-all.

6:21

And so we really have to sit there and listen.

First you have to show empathy.

You have to understand where their emotions, where their attachments are coming from, whether it’s you know them personally or their attachment because they don’t want to cause more disruption for the children involved.

6:41

And then after we really understand why is it important for you to retain the home, then we can start looking at what the strategies and solutions are for keeping it.

You know, because you’re right, interest rates are crazy.

6:59

You know, so many people during COVID time, they’re down to upper twos or 3% on a 30 year fix.

And now you’re telling somebody who’s maybe some of their household income is walking out the door along with their spouse and now you’re saying, OK, great.

7:17

Well your interest rate is now going to double if you want to keep the house.

So we really have to break that those numbers down.

One of the things that I do like bringing into the conversation with our divorcing clients is that there’s a cost to keeping that low interest rate.

7:37

The cost is if you’re going to keep the loan as is, you’re going to have to equalize the equity with what another asset, So are you, is the cost then going to be giving up another asset that could grow as well?

7:55

The other cost is they also they overlook so many times the fact that their tax filing status is going to change.

They’re going to go from married filing jointly to either single or head of household.

8:10

And they don’t understand that that significant deduct, the standardized deduction is not going to help them.

And so when we run numbers, they are their eyes just pop open when they see that if I keep this low interest rate, my cost is going to be paying Uncle Sam more at the end of the year.

8:35

And how about the capital gains tax?

They lose the $500,000 deduction.

That Yep, they’re partners 250 yeah.

They also don’t understand that if they sell down the road that they there is no step up in basis.

So there’s there’s a lot of more numbers to crunch financial planning to take into consideration more so than what’s my mortgage payment.

9:02

We talked about that for a little bit more if you’re listening.

I know it sounds probably a little confusing.

So if you’re married and you sell your home, you have the purchase price of your home, plus you added any upgrades, which is what your increased cost basis is.

And then if you and your spouse sell it, you only pay taxes on anything over 500,000 ’cause you have a $500,000 deduction, you each get 250.

9:26

But a lot of individuals want to keep the home, particularly the moms, so they keep that home.

And now Fast forward, and I think it has to be after two years, right?

So after two years you sell the home.

That same cost basis, let’s just say it is for argument purposes, you only get 250.

9:44

So you’re paying taxes on anything over $250,000?

Yes.

So if they get remarried in that time period, then it would be considered married, right?

Even though it’s their home now without their first spouse, they can have a second spouse and they each get 250.

Yeah, yeah.

10:01

You have to meet ownership and usability guidelines and pass those tests with the IRS.

And the one thing that a lot of people overlook is they think that they have to add their new spouse to title to get that additional deduction.

10:20

And they don’t because in the eyes of the IRS, you are you have legal ownership if you’re married, but you each have to individually meet your use test, meaning they have to have lived there for two years during the during the course of the marriage.

10:37

The way I reason I say that is there are sometimes where, you know, you, the standard definition says you have to live there as your primary residence for two out of the last five years.

But we have situations where, you know, maybe a divorcing couple, they divorced six years ago.

10:57

And maybe, let’s say for argument’s sake, it’s the husband, he moves out.

So he hasn’t lived there for two of the last five years, but his name remains on title.

As long as you’ve lived there for two years during the course of your marriage, the IRS will still allow you to take that exclusion.

11:16

Which means if you retain the home because you, as you mentioned earlier, and I agree, you negotiate another asset away and you keep the home and now you decide and you’re divorced and then you decide three years later this was too much of A house, I want to sell it.

11:34

They can still get the $500,000 write off if spouse was in that two year period of living in that time frame.

Or do they lose that?

If if the previous spouse remains on title, because obviously once they’re divorced, they no longer have the marital ownership.

11:55

So if if the husband moves out six years ago, outside of that five years, as long as he remains on title and as long as he lived there for two years during the course of the marriage, then they can both they can both use their 250 exclusion.

12:13

Oh, even if he buys another house.

Yeah, because you can use that exclusion every two years.

Oh, you could use that exclusion every two years.

OK, that’s really good.

And to get it, and this is jump and ship, you know, I’m so excited for this to share this information with everybody.

12:31

But to to get approved, if I’m the spouse and I’m not the wage earner but I’m receiving alimony, do I need 6 months of alimony payments consistently to use that as income available for approval?

It depends on the type of loan you have.

12:47

You either have a government loan FHAVAUSDA.

You then have to show three months proof of receipt.

If it’s a conventional loan through Fannie, Freddie, etcetera, you do have to show six months proof of receipt and there’s a lot of, you know, chaos surrounding that as well.

13:06

You not only have to have the three or six month proof of receipt, you have to show three years of continuance once the loan is closed so that we can establish consistency and that is reliable income.

But where I see there’s chaos that even comes around that is, and this is where I think also it’s very helpful when both spouses understand the guardrails around using support income.

13:34

I’ve seen so many times where, let’s say again, it’s the wife who’s retaining the home and maybe she’s going to receive $6000 a month in support and she needs to show that, you know, six months proof of receipt right before she can do the refinance, remove the husband’s name.

13:52

But in the meantime, the husband’s name remains on the mortgage.

He wants to make sure there’s no missed payment, etcetera.

So they come up with an agreement that says until you refinance, I’ll pay the mortgage directly and reduce that amount from support.

14:12

OK, it’s a legal option.

Sounds fair.

However, she will never be able to use that full amount because it was never paid as ordered.

She never received the full amount.

So while the intentions are good, it creates A vicious cycle and she’ll never be able to use that as income.

14:32

So we really need to sit down and explain the rules of the war, if you will.

You know, to bore both spouses and you know, I there’s got to be another way.

There’s always a solution.

You just have to talk it out.

Yeah, we talk about that.

14:48

That’s always a consideration for our clients when we’re talking about this.

We do the considerations for the impact of everything and it is such an overlooked dynamic that is never discussed.

So I’m glad you brought that up.

We say that also with child support.

If your child support payment is a certain amount, make that child support payment and whatever you’re doing on the sidebar, do on the sidebar because you can be brought back for not paying your child support.

15:14

Well on that note, it’s often our clients will tell us it’s their attorneys recommendation.

This is very much to your point, Jody and Catherine, that you know because spouse is paying the expenses of X amount, they don’t need support, they don’t need temporary support.

15:31

And so sitting down and running through those calculations and making sure you know that it’s on point relative to precedence, but also setting you up for success or your ability to refinance is very important.

15:47

And sometimes that’s really hard to push all the way through a talking to your client and then convincing the attorney that something needs to be done to set, you know, the client up in a in a good way to move forward.

16:03

Yeah.

And even carrying that conversation further on temporary support, if if they are setting, if they have like a specific time frame where I want my equity out of the house, I want to refinance or we’re going to sell and both of us are going to downsize and buy new properties.

16:22

Temporary orders need to be considered because again, we can.

So for that three or six months time frame, temporary orders will start that clock ticking.

And we can’t close obviously alone on temporary orders because it can end, right?

16:40

But at least it starts our receipt clock.

And why that’s so important if you have clients who are selling and then both looking to purchase is, let’s say the paying spouse, he can go and apply for a mortgage tomorrow or she, you know, so we’re always going to count that payment against them.

17:03

But like I said, they could close a new loan in 30 days.

But the person who is receiving support, if they have to show three or six months proof of receipt, what are they going to do?

Couch surf for six months, you know, and sometimes I get it.

17:21

You know, a lot of attorneys don’t want to go down the road of temporary orders.

Or you have the paying spouse say, well, I’m already paying.

I don’t need temporary orders.

But what may be available as a legal option is not a mortgage option.

17:38

And we really need to have that discussion.

And even for say somebody’s retaining the home and I need my equity now because I need it for a down payment of the house, but I’m not going to pay, you know, support under temporary orders.

17:54

So I don’t need temporary orders.

Well, how long do you want to wait for your equity?

Can those temporary orders be effective to help you be eligible to for pre approval?

Yeah, we just have to have final orders and at least one month’s proof of receipt of the final order to cap on top of the the months received for the temporary support.

18:20

Yeah.

So often that’s so important because they think they want to keep the house and they don’t know if they’re going to qualify.

So to get that pre approval is a really important step to take sometimes.

Yeah.

The only issue is, you know, what’s the difference going to be in dollar amount of temporary versus permanent.

18:40

You know, if it’s, if it’s a significant increase, for example, from temporary to permanent, the underwriters might require, you know, a couple months at least to show that you were paying the higher amount.

Unfortunately, it’s, it’s left up to a lot of the underwriters for interpretation.

18:59

I’ve had, believe it or not, an underwriter come back and request six months of proof of receipt from permanent orders after it went down from temporary orders.

And I’m like, you’re out of your mind.

19:14

You know, we need some common sense underwriting here.

Obviously we elevated it and got it wiped off.

But I mean that’s that’s the hard thing for us in the mortgage business is our our guidelines, our rules are somewhat vague and it’s open to interpretation.

19:34

And when we have operations team members, underwriters, processors, etcetera, who don’t work in divorce even same same thing with untrained lenders, they don’t know the nuances of divorce, they don’t know what the legal terms are, they don’t know you know, the the tax implications etcetera.

19:56

That’s where the harm is caused and unfortunately, you know, it’s that divorcing client that bears the burden of that.

Yeah, I remember when I bought my house and I went through my divorce and I was getting alimony and one month he asked to pay my alimony in two payments.

20:17

And one thing that my ex was good about, but he did, he was good about making his payments.

So I always trusted that that would happen, but I was like, sure, like I get it because I knew his business too, right?

Well, that threw a.

Whole.

Frenzy into my whole mortgage application.

20:33

I had to resubmit so many things.

I was like, are you kidding me?

Just and it it was the same total amount, but because they did that they wanted to see few more months of him actually paying me again.

It took like another three or four months.

I was so annoyed by that because I’m a common sense girl.

20:51

I’m like, OK, clearly he gave it to me and it clearly I’m not complaining.

Why are you complaining, Right?

But really, you don’t think about that.

You know, and I get it too, couples, they may, they’re getting divorced for a reason, you know, but I find by the time it’s all said and done, they’re still, they’re willing to help each other figure it out.

21:13

Especially like you just said, you understood his business.

So all good intentions, you know, and then sometimes it’s like, well, do we write in those intentions into the settlement agreement?

Depends again on the situation and the parties involved.

21:30

You allow too much leeway in the language, you know, some people are going to take advantage of that.

And so it’s just it’s hard.

But again, it’s all knowledge, you know, it’s it’s explaining to the clients the what ifs is going to happen and making sure that everybody’s on the same page.

21:51

And you know, obviously there’s going to be some spouses that intentionally, you know, throw a curveball in there.

But for the most part, I think, again, when those expectations are laid out, everybody just kind of like mediation, you know, when everybody is made part of the conversation, they are more apt to keep up their end of the bargain.

22:14

So.

Yeah, I agree.

Can we also talk about the other cost of refinancing that people may not be aware of meaning points and things like that?

That would be very helpful I believe.

22:30

Yeah, they’re unfortunately, again, there’s no across the board.

It used to be that competing, competing, competing mortgage companies, Oh, I’ve got the best rates in town or I’ve got the best products in town.

22:46

We all have everything together the same anymore and but the cost of buying a rate down can be different than another company.

And a discount point literally is money interest.

23:05

You’re paying upfront basically to buy that interest rate down.

And let’s say it’s 1%, one discount point, that’s not going to be 1% of the purchase price, it’s 1% of the loan amount.

Great.

Can we back up a little bit and give our list and there’s some background here.

23:22

What do you mean by that?

Who’s buying down what and for what purpose?

So I interpreted the question as you know.

Explain what discount points are so the borrower so if it’s the borrowing couple or the borrowing spouse if they want to buy a lower interest rate, they basically are paying points to buy that interest rate down below what it’s open available on the market right now.

23:53

And The thing is too is doesn’t make sense.

You know, I, I, for example, my son and daughter-in-law, they bought a house last year and they bought their interest rate down.

24:09

And I’m sitting here thinking, was that the smartest thing to do because they anticipate rates to come down.

So are you going to make up that cost in the savings every month to speed out when lower interest rates come across?

24:26

You know, so buying down the rate alone, again, it’s just another planning aspect of it.

It’s like, how long are you going to keep this mortgage?

Are you going to refinance as soon as rates come down?

What’s the expectation on there?

24:42

And then are you going to lose money because, well, I already paid to buy it down South?

And there’s other things.

I mean, there’s temporary buy downs.

You can buy your rate down temporarily.

And it’s like, OK, yeah.

There’s a lot of variables and sometimes, you know, just to get a variable rate, especially in the volatile market, may be a better option.

25:03

But you know, there’s also title insurance cost, there’s also appraisal cost.

And I think sometimes people don’t really anticipate the cost of refinancing and it goes back to their emotional connection to the home and the finance potential impact of them retaining the home.

25:20

Is it really something that you know will benefit them moving forward?

So you know, it all goes back to the why.

Everything has to balance out, emotional, physical, you know, everything needs to balance out for sure.

25:35

And I think that is what we’re talking about today.

Yeah, and they don’t understand why do I need title insurance?

I have a clean title on my house.

Well the lender wants to make sure there is title insurance on the House and that they are getting clear title.

25:51

So there are some non negotiables out there and it it it can add up.

I will say probably the most expensive cost if you want to consider the cost of refinancing is reestablishing your escrow accounts, because typically you have to put in close to six months more depending on what time of the year it is for your taxes.

26:15

And then is your homeowner insurance, when’s it due?

Are you going to have to pay another premium in advance?

And so when people look at their closing costs and they’re like, holy cow, it’s $14,000.

It’s like, yeah, but 8000 of it is your taxes and insurance, which you would pay anyway.

26:32

And then you have to explain to them that you will most likely get an escrow refund from your current lender.

That sometimes washes it out pretty well.

But.

As long as they have access to that check, right?

Sometimes it goes back to the paying spouse, yeah.

26:51

So there’s two things that I’ll talk about on the escrow and #1 is you’re correct.

The even though the court says that, you know, Jody’s getting the house, she has to refinance it if she wants to keep it.

If my ex-husband and I were both on the mortgage, the mortgage company doesn’t care what that decree says.

27:12

They are going to issue that refund check to me and my ex-spouse as a joint check.

I have had some very contentious clients where one specifically the husband, he wouldn’t even sign the quitclaim deed.

27:29

He made it go.

The title company had to go to my client’s attorney through his attorney to get him to sign it.

And all the way back, well then you Fast forward a couple months where the client received I think it was like a $9000 escrow refund and it came joint and she goes you need to fix this.

27:47

I’m like, I can’t fix that.

So it went back through the whole legal channel and then them saying well 50% of that is mine, you know.

So that is there has to be clear instruction in the Salem agreement as to who gets ownership of that check.

28:05

The other thing that I like to point out is that escrow account is sitting there to pay an existing tax liability on the House because property taxes are paid in arrears, meaning next year.

28:20

And so if I’m if I’m keeping the house and let’s say I was awarded the house in October, OK, my ex-husband and I Co owned that house for the first nine months of the year.

That’s an existing joint tax liability that why should I eat that you enjoyed living there for nine months.

28:44

And that is something that I, I can honestly say 99.9% of the time is not addressed in a settlement agreement that existing tax liability and that’s why that escrow check is there.

Then you get that check that you had to go through all those legal channels like you just said.

29:05

It was a $9000 check that basically neither of you got because you paid your attorneys to go back and forth about it, right?

Yeah, you know, and think about this.

What if my ex husband’s name was the only one on the mortgage and I refinanced it?

He got 100% of that check mailed to him from the mortgage company.

29:25

We definitely see that.

Can we touch on mortgage assumption?

The a word.

The a word right?

It always comes up.

So how?

How is that being handled?

29:41

I guess in 2025, for lack of a better question, because I know how it is now is not how it always used to be.

I feel like it’s more restrictive now.

So government loans have always been assumable.

29:59

Conventional loans rarely ever were in the past.

I’m going to stop you right there because you mentioned that before.

How does somebody know which loan that they have?

So they should, they would know if they have an FHA loan or VA loan, it’ll say on their mortgage statements.

30:15

But typically they’ve known if they have questions, they can look at their loan documents or they can ask, you know, a current loan officer to look it up.

But assumptions are a huge thing right now, obviously because of the interest rates change and more and more lenders are starting to consider divorce as a life event to where they are more open, if you will, to allowing one spouse to assume the mortgage.

30:49

But there’s a couple different things, though.

You can do what’s called a simple transfer assumption where the lender has no say.

So if I’m awarded the marital home and I’m awarded awarded the responsibility of making the mortgage payment, I am assuming legal responsibility for making the existing mortgage payment.

31:12

That protection is protected under the Garden St.

Germain Act.

It’s a federal protection for heirs and divorcing clients alone.

The lender cannot accelerate do on sale clause or anything.

Typically though, in an assumption case, the vacating party wants completely off of the mortgage.

31:33

So that’s called a qualified assumption.

So the spouse who wants to assume the existing mortgage so that they can not only keep the low interest rate, but if you’ve paid 10 years into that mortgage, why go back up 30, right?

31:50

So they want to keep the existing terms of the loan.

There’s a couple things.

One, if you have to pay equity out of the property to your spouse, you cannot do that through an assumption because you are assuming the existing terms of the loan.

Maybe you have to get a second, who knows?

32:08

Most lenders want to make sure that the divorce is final before you even start the assumption because they have to know what the terms of the divorce are.

And the other thing is the qualified, you still have to qualify.

So that’s another reason to have a CDLP involved in the divorce settlement process is because we want to make sure you are setting yourself up for success with the assumption.

32:34

We have to make sure the language is right.

We have still have to run your numbers, you know, to make sure that not only can you afford it, but you can be approved for it.

Two different things, you know, so there’s a lot of, do I do the assumption?

32:49

Do I not do the assumption going back, what’s the cost for doing the assumption?

You know, taxes, assets, whatever.

It’s not always the best decision.

And then fortunately also there’s no one-size-fits-all.

33:07

This lender may say, no, you cannot do an assumption.

The exact same scenario over here.

They say, yeah, we’ll let you work on it, but then there’s no guarantee six months later they’re going to come back and say absolutely they can come back in six months and say no.

33:24

So if an assumption is being sought in the throughout the divorce, we then want to make sure that we’re incorporating language that is going to allow for the flexibility and, you know, have a, a contingency plan in there should they come back and say no.

33:42

Well, then are you going to be able to refinance or are you going to be given 30 days to put the house on the market?

You know, we have to build those contingencies in.

Yeah.

So if you just do a non qualified just and you assume the responsibility and your spouse stays on has to stay on the mortgage, their name has to stay on the mortgage.

34:05

Or can you do a quick claim deed change with the spouse still on the mortgage if you’re assuming the responsibility of the home?

You can, and there’s obviously a lot of vibrant discussions around that.

I love that word.

34:20

It’s.

Very colorful at times.

One might say, why would I sign over ownership if my name is on title, you know, and I’ll give you an example as to why it’s not a good decision.

One of our CDLPS was working with an attorney in Florida and what had happened was the husband, his name was the only one on the mortgage.

34:47

His wife was awarded the home and he came off title, everything.

And then she added her son, which is his stepson, to title.

And now it’s like you can’t force the stepson to sell the house.

35:07

You, he’s not making the mortgage payments.

And it’s like the sad thing is you give up all control, you know, and it’s kind of like this attorney was trying to figure out how to go back now and protect this husband.

35:24

And unfortunately he was elderly too.

So it was like he was being taken total advantage of and there was no repercussions, you know, to the stepsons credit or anything, you know, but keeping it cleaner, you know, just saying it’s a nice easy case and point.

35:43

The same thing.

It’s like I personally wouldn’t want my name off of something that I’m still liable for because what if my spouse was killed in a car accident?

Who gets the house?

Whoever her heirs are, but I’m still on the legal hook for that mortgage.

36:00

Well.

What about the flip?

What if he passes away and his name is on that mortgage, but the deed is ceded to her?

There.

That’s where the Garn St.

Jermaine Act comes in.

The lender has to leave it as is.

They cannot.

36:16

They can’t foreclose on it.

They can’t accelerate the due on sale clause or anything.

They lose that money, they can’t force this other person to pay it, right?

Well, they can foreclose on it if they don’t pay it.

No, if I if it’s in my name and then I do a quick claim deed to you, the mortgage is in my name.

36:36

But now the house is titled to you and I die.

How can they go back and get the house if the mortgage if I.

The mortgage company will still have a lien against the property.

Mortgage will still have the lien, OK.

Yeah, but you can see how messy our world can.

36:54

Get and it does, unfortunately.

And it sounds so simple and most of the agreements coming through for our review and I’m sure you see them as well, Jody, they don’t the protection and enforcement provisions.

Are.

37:10

Light.

Or a lack of a better word.

And you and you know clients would not even know that until something goes wrong.

You know, title is another thing.

Obviously in every state there’s different ways of holding title, but there’s also in almost every state a default effect of divorce on title where it’s severs joint tendency.

37:35

And so you may be, you may think, well, by a tenancy by the entirety.

Tenancy by the entirety can only be held by married couples.

So as soon as that divorce is final, it defaults to tenancy in common with no rider survivorship.

In many states, joint tenancy will also default to tenancy in common with no rider survivorship.

37:57

And without going into a full drill down on what all that means, it basically means you are left unprotected.

You know, if if you hold title now as tenancy in common and you don’t know that and there’s now a lien against your ex-spouse and their business, that lien can transfer to the house that you were now given ownership of.

38:23

If your spouse again passes away, that doesn’t mean that their share of that house goes to you.

Their share of that house could end up in probate and sold off to pay their debts.

Or I always laugh at this one.

It could go to their new spouse.

38:39

Could you imagine me owning a house with my ex husband’s wife?

No, but it can happen, you know.

And it’s it surprises me how many strong attorneys don’t know that.

38:56

But again, they practice family law.

They don’t practice real estate law and that’s why I am so proud of our program.

The CDLP certification is because everything that is family law, real property law, financial or tax related to the house or anything that has to do with the mortgage, we cover.

39:19

Because I want our CDLPS to truly be experts in divorce mortgage planning to where they can sit there, have a conversation with the divorcing client or at a seat at the settlement conference and start recognizing these things that are being missed and being able to bring that up so that it is addressed on behalf of the clients, both of them, not just no one client.

39:44

Yeah.

And so our financial portrait is to get everyone prepared, knowing what you have, what you don’t have, your income, your expenses, your assets and your debt.

And we want them to know what they need to consider.

So when we’re helping our clients get prepared, we love when they go speak to you or one of your professionals because they should know this stuff before they’re negotiating something away.

40:04

You know it’s too late sometimes when you go back and sign off on something.

And who wants to go back to court with a spouse that you just divorced?

Right.

Yep, again, the cost of being unprepared.

Yeah, this is great.

I think we could go on and on forever.

We’re so.

40:21

Proud of your work too.

Jody for sure.

Yeah, it’s fantastic.

I appreciate.

That.

So some final advice somebody.

What would you give someone when deciding whether they want to try to assume alone keep the house refinance they’re setting up their alimony.

40:40

What would be the first final piece of?

Well, the first.

What would be the the.

First piece of advice is I would say recognize that not all mortgage professionals are the same.

Truly seek out a certified divorce learning professional.

The other thing is be open to options.

41:00

You know that so many times you go in there, I want the house, I’m keeping this house.

Maybe you can’t afford it, maybe you can, but you’re going to be house poor.

You know, be open to listening, opening, open to learning, open to literally exploring various strategies and solutions because you guys know this from the financial side.

41:26

There’s a lot of lump sum payments going out right now.

You know, that’s a great bank account.

You have 0 income.

How do we sit there and work with your entire financial team and legal team to turn that into qualified income?

41:42

Because yeah, you can afford the house.

You can’t get approved for the house, you know?

So seek education, seek the right experts for your situation, and just be willing to go with the flow a little bit longer because divorce does change the normal process of mortgages, real estate, everything.

42:05

Yeah.

So as we all heard today, if you’re listening for your take away, there is a difference between a CDLP and your mortgage advisor at your bank or wherever you acquired your mortgage.

And that’s really important.

And you really know what your options are and what the impact of that is.

42:21

And I know Karen and I speak about that all the time.

And probably the last take away there is that you might be able to afford the home, you might be more comfortable living in a home, but can you get approved to keep that home?

And there’s so many things to consider.

So thank you, Jody, so much for sharing your expertise today.

42:37

I mean, these housing decisions are at the forefront of all negotiations now, especially with the climate we’re living in with interest rates and so forth, and it being probably one of the two of the biggest assets that our family will own.

So you’re giving our listeners a lot of valuable information.

42:53

Boy, I’ve learned a lot, too with you today.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, I’ll come back anytime.

Yeah, I think we need to do a follow up because there’s so many little things I wrote down.

We could just make the podcast about those issues.

And actually, if you’re listening, don’t forget to share this with somebody that resonates with or send us comments or questions that you have and we’ll be happy to have Jodie back on.

43:15

For sure.

And if you want to protect your financial future before making major decisions, visit us at My Divorce solution.com.

You do not have to go through this alone.

Until next time, take a breath, protect your peace, and let knowledge be your power.

43:35

Thanks for joining us on another episode of WeChat Divorce.

We hope this episode was informative and supportive on your divorce journey.

If you're looking for more support for navigating divorce with confidence and clarity, head over to azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more podcast episodes, divorce events, and resources for your divorce.

43:58

We’ll see you back here for our next episode.