Divorcing a Narcissist: How to Break the Emotional Grip and Get Financial Clarity with Dr. Onalee

0:01

Welcome to WeChat Divorce, hosted by Karen Chalou, Legal Liaison and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA.

Each episode we sit down with divorce professionals and industry experts to provide insights and frank discussions about real people, real situations, and real divorce to help you achieve your best life post divorce.

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This episode of WeChat Divorce is brought to you by My Divorce Solution, offering divorce financial planning so clients can secure the divorce settlement they deserve.

Visit azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ to request access.

Narcissistic.

0:40

Partners don’t just manipulate emotions, they manipulate money, security and your sense of stability.

Financial abuse and emotional manipulation often go hand in hand.

Today, we sit down with Doctor Anna Lee to break down the four essential steps to recovering from narcissistic dynamics and how to rebuild both your identity and your financial foundation.

1:05

Welcome back to WeChat Divorce, brought to you by My Divorce Solution.

I’m Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison here to help you navigate the legal side of divorce with clarity, calm, and confidence.

And I’m Catherine Shanahan, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and your partner in securing long term financial stability.

1:25

At NDS, we know that when you replace fear and with facts, you start making decisions that truly protect your future.

Together, we’re going deeper than numbers or legal steps.

We’re talking about the emotional grip of narcissistic relationships, how they shape your identity, your finances, your confidence, and your ability to trust yourself.

1:46

Trust yourself again.

We brought someone in today who has dedicated her life’s work to helping women break free from these patterns.

Doctor Anna Lee has helped hundreds of women heal from narcissistic narcissistic dynamics, recover their sense of self, and when they are ready, attract healthy, aligned love.

2:04

Her insights are powerful and honest. And this conversation is one that so many listeners have have asked us to have.

It’s always a tough conversation, Karen, because even if you don’t have a diagnosed spouse, you feel like your spouse is a narcissistic person.

2:19

And you know, it’s women too.

You know, we have a lot of male clients who have narcissistic female spouses.

And you know, it’s one that’s close and dear to my heart because I understand it.

But I’m glad to have her on today and discuss this.

2:35

And really, hopefully people walk away knowing that getting financial clarity, we’ll give them some sort of courage to make the next step or to stand up for themselves.

Agreed.

There’s so much to navigate when you’re in these types of high conflict situations and taking the time to explore the possibilities is of high value.

3:01

And I think a lot of people don’t understand that.

They just rush to the next decision, which is onboarding attorneys and lawyering up, as they say.

And sometimes all that’s doing is pouring gasoline on the fire.

And so, you know, I believe you and I and my divorce solution, the whole team, you know, we’re here about the mission of exploring possibilities, understanding, knowing as much as you can before you take steps into negotiating divorce.

3:34

Yeah, and that means no premature negotiation.

So many people are gasoled into a decision that they don’t really understand the impact yet.

And it just sounds good because your spouse knows how to play on your emotions.

So they say you can have this, you can have that.

3:50

It’s going to be great.

Otherwise, if you don’t listen to me, you’ll get nothing because this is all of my assets.

So hopefully through this conversation, you’ll have the courage to take our assessment, have an online conversation with one of our intake managers to see if our process would be a fit for you to get the courage that you need.

4:09

So let’s get into this incredibly important and empowering conversation.

Doctor Annalee, welcome to WeChat Divorce.

Thank you for having me.

I’m so excited here to support in any way that I can to anybody that’s listening, that’s.

4:29

Great.

So we’re thrilled, of course, to have you.

And for our listeners, here’s a little bit about the incredible work that you do.

Doctor Anali is an expert in narcissistic relationships.

The past half decade, she’s helped hundreds of women recover from these kinds of relationships and attract their soulmate.

4:49

She spends a lot of her time supporting addicts in recovery, impasse and people who struggle with mental health.

She’s worked with some of the top business and relationship coaches featured in Forbes and has created her own multiple 6 figure business.

She has a doctorate in chiropractic, bachelor’s in exercise Physiology and graduated from the Institute of Integrated Nutrition and is always striving to learn so she can teach more.

5:16

That’s that’s wonderful.

I think you may be the first person that we’ve talked to who specializes in narcissistic relationships who has this rich of a medical background.

So that’s very interesting for sure.

Yeah, I, I love that.

5:32

Cause actually when I was in chiropractic school, I had started my business, I wasn’t going to complete, but I, I decided I was going to finish it and, and have that expertise be able to be accredited.

So it does help me with specializing in the nervous system, with the brain, with the mindset, all the things.

5:50

So it is a perk that, that I got to complete that.

But yes, straight up narcissistic relationship relationships that is.

That is my main thing that’s.

Great.

So on that note, Doctor Anali, can you tell our listeners about your story and what brought you to do the work that you do?

6:08

Absolutely.

I I was in chiropractic school and I was in a narcissistic relationship.

But at the time I didn’t know that it wasn’t as big of a buzzword or people weren’t talking about it as as much then.

6:24

But I was going through all the experiences of what you would feel like in a textbook narcissistic relationship.

Lots of the gaslighting, the reactive abuse, never feeling enough, running out of complete energy, and it wasn’t until he ended up moving out on me with actually no warning.

6:41

We had an apartment together, came home one day and while I was at my internship he he just moved all his stuff out.

And so after that, that’s where I went down the rabbit hole.

As I was trying to heal from that, just Googling things, Youtubing videos, how to process this, I started coming across more information around narcissistic relationships.

7:01

And a light bulb went off because I would look and I was saying, Oh my gosh, it’s not that I’m crazy, it’s that I was in one of these kind of relationships.

I wasn’t aware of that.

And so that put me on a journey of really healing from that, working with a lot of therapists, coaches, healers, anything to help me release that kind of relationship.

7:21

But I think it was because my own experience and I kept attracting narcissistic people after that.

And so I was on this mission.

Why do I keep attracting this?

And because I was so passionate about it, I then started helping people because I also realized the clients I had at the time too, I was mainly a life coach or weight loss coach, but a lot of my clients, when I would get down to the nitty gritty of it, they were struggling with these kind of relationships.

7:50

And so I would say it’s a combination of me going through it, knowing what it feels like, other people who haven’t gone through it, they don’t know.

But then seeing it’s a, it was a root in a lot of my clients, what they were going through.

It wasn’t actually the, the issue with the diet or whatever The thing is that they came to me with.

8:07

It was what’s going on in this kind of relationship.

So why were you attracting that type of relationship?

Yeah, so I had a wound Astoria dynamic of not feeling chosen.

So I would attract in people who would mirror back to me this wound that I had since I was a child.

8:26

And so I always say it’s, it’s almost a good thing the person who comes into our life because they’re mirroring back to us if we can use it for good, the wounds that we weren’t able to heal when we were children.

So they’re going to reflect back to you and show you what you’ve been caring for a really long time.

8:45

So until I really healed that wound of not being chosen and knowing I am good enough, I am worthy, that’s when then I stopped attracting that kind of relationship.

But if somebody would come in who, for example, made me feel not chosen, they were condescending, they were rude, they were lying.

9:02

Whatever the case may be, the work there that I had to do was I had to not entertain it, not go on another date.

I knew it.

It wasn’t right.

Instead of lying to myself, give them another chance.

Benefit of the doubt, all of those things.

That’s interesting.

9:18

So how do you determine that it was that you were not chosen like like?

Yeah, a good question.

So it would, it would be that they would be all about being in the beginning, if you’ve heard of like the love bombing kind of stage, they make you feel like you’re the most beautiful, amazing person.

9:33

You’re their soul mate.

And then all of a sudden all of their energy stops going towards you.

So they, they’ll usually choose somebody else.

For example, they’ll start dating somebody else.

You’ll, you’ll see them still on the dating apps They won’t, they wouldn’t commit to me and they would still be open to dating other people.

9:51

So that would make me feel something’s wrong with me.

Somebody else is better.

And then I just summarized that conclude as I’m not chosen, I’m not good enough.

And so now you know you are good enough or.

Yes.

Now you’re more than good enough, yeah.

Exactly that’s that’s the healing here yes you have to you have to know that and when you know that then you you wouldn’t really then fall for the narcissistic kind of tactics that they do.

10:17

It would be like, oh, like why would I even want to go on another date with you?

You almost get the ick, which is a a, a common thing that people say now that’s yeah.

When you know that you’re good enough and you know that, yeah, they would be lucky to have you.

The the reason we can also get caught in these relationships is when we don’t fully feel that.

10:36

If we feel we’re not good enough, we hope that somebody chooses us.

We hope that they want to date us.

It’s that kind of energy that gets us sucked into those kind of relationships.

Yeah, what did you say?

That it’s even better to figure that out before you even get into another relationship.

10:52

Absolutely.

Yeah.

That’s a lot of the work that I I really do it.

It is around you.

When you see the red flags, instead of this fear of missing out or being too picky, you go, no, I’m not even gonna even before you go on a date, sometimes somebody will show you who they are.

11:08

I’m very big on before you even get on that date or after that first date.

We don’t go on the second date.

Like we almost are picky in the beginning when we have a 10 to attract these kind of relationships.

I wish a lot of our clients would have the time to realize this before they even hire an attorney because a lot of times they hire the attorney who has the same traits and treats them the same way as their spouse and they almost feel comforted in that for a while.

11:34

Absolutely.

Oh, yeah, I would say almost.

I don’t know of the exact percentage, but I say 90%.

It’s a lot of my clients.

They are the ones who are going through through divorce like they have.

They have gone through the wringer in these relationships.

They’ve gone through so much back and forth with this person.

11:51

I’m going to leave, I’m going to stay.

I’m going to leave, I’m going to stay.

And it gets to the point they they can’t take it anymore.

Yeah.

Now that you’ve thrown out that 90% of that 90%, how many of those clients percentage wise do you think are just so financially scared?

12:08

Oh my gosh, yeah.

That’s the biggest thing.

Yeah, that’s that’s a huge, huge aspect of it.

Even if somebody has a lot in savings, for example, a lot of them the, the financials have gotten so messy and so entangled with the other person.

And it is a common thing with my clients, I would say is they put a lot of financial dependency on that other person.

12:30

And so when it comes to leaving or going through the divorce, tons, tons of fear.

But I always say like there is a way it just, it might be really uncomfortable.

It might be a lot of humility.

It might not be the thing you you want to do.

Or sometimes I’ve they’d have to move in with the parent, which is very, very hard for them, you know, especially being being a woman in her 40s or something like that.

12:52

But I say it’s, it’s whatever you need to do and not relying because a lot of them are like, well, financially I can’t, I can’t do it.

I can’t get out.

But that’s what a huge aspect of what keeps them stuck.

And, you know, we also experience more therapists than coaches with clients in this particular situation warning them not to antagonize or trigger the narcissist.

13:21

And so that’s a little confusing.

I mean, I can understand, maybe I can understand why someone would say that.

But when you’re in these types of relationships, is there a path forward that you can start to have better conversation with them?

13:41

Because is it really all about not antagonizing them or not triggering them?

Yes.

What I will say is I have a reel that always goes viral and it was me in my car.

It was after a workout and I said how to win an argument with a narcissist.

And the principle behind it is actually you not fully engaging in it and trying to win it and getting your point across.

14:04

And the reason being is because when you are having an argument or a conversation with a narcissistic kind of person, somebody who just wants to be right, they don’t have the self-awareness, the self accountability.

They’re just going to keep the argument going until they feel they win.

14:19

So they’re going to throw out random facts, things from the past, all all these things just and it, it riles the person up.

And so the key here is to stay in neutrality as best you can, not needing to get your point across, which is where it seems counterintuitive, but the reason being is because you want to keep your center, you want to keep your cool.

14:40

There’s no end with this.

This person, they’re going to fight you till death.

They just want to win.

And then sometimes, yeah, you might then act out of character.

You might say something you don’t mean.

You might have your anger rise.

And that’s when the spiral happens.

So with these kind of relationships, it’s, it’s neutrality, almost like a bully.

14:59

If they can’t bully you anymore, they eventually get bored.

They might want to amp up their tactics.

But eventually if if you don’t react to them, what, what satisfaction do they fully get out of it?

So with my clients, I’m just big on less is more.

15:14

And I say sometimes you have to lose more with them, like let go of fighting over the Costco membership in order to to gain more, to have more peace, more comfort.

That’s the way we win in these kind of situations.

Your peace, you being complete, you being done.

15:31

So yeah, it’s, it’s counterintuitive.

I definitely know that.

But that’s to me, the most effective thing is, is not needing to get that final word, get your point across.

And it’s it’s so madding, it’s so hard.

But that’s how you keep your cool.

Yeah, it is.

15:47

I mean, I have life experience here, but it is madding, you know?

It is you.

You, you know, especially when you’re a legit a logical thinker, right?

You just want to be able to say one more thing.

Let’s say one more thing.

And now with our clients, when we see them, they, they want to ask their spouse like 5 questions about the finances.

16:06

And I say they’re only answering one.

And if they answer one, it might not even be in the answer to one of the five questions you’re asking them.

They’re only going to say what they want to say.

So for us, the backbone that you get is through financial clarity, when you have to make this decision whether to stay or go or how you move forward.

16:23

And a lot of times it plays into how you’re going to handle your math, your attorney or your mediator, because you need to be able to stand up and advocate for yourself.

But you know, the only way you can do that in divorce is through clarity.

And that financial clarity gives you the courage to do it, which is why I love our process.

16:40

I mean, it’s one of the reasons why I love our process.

Yes, I yeah, I’m excited to learn more about that that because that is, I’m telling you, I, I have a friend who her, her mother is finally divorcing, a full blown textbook narcissist.

But what kept her is the finances.

16:57

And so my friend is, is helping her.

She makes great money.

And that’s, you know, it’s a lot of humility for her mom.

But that was what kept her staying year after year after year.

She felt she couldn’t because of the finances, but he was, yeah, he was horrible to her.

So.

Well, you know, we get a lot of 3030 and 40 year marriages and people are always, you know, they’re always shocked.

17:18

Oh my God, why would somebody get divorced after 30 years, right?

That’s always the question when you’re talking to your friends outside of this world.

And you know, the answer is it’s because they finally have the courage because they felt so trapped.

And there becomes a day when you’re with a narcissist, narcissist that you say, I just can’t take this anymore.

17:35

You know, I, I’m not going to live the rest of my life like like that.

And that’s a courageous thing to be able to say.

But then to get the financial clarity on top of that, it gives you really that jump start to just do it, you know, because whether it’s good, bad or indifferent, it’s going to be your own financial independence that’s going to lead you to live your best life moving forward.

17:56

Yes, yes.

And I’m so, yeah, a lot of my clients, they’ve been in 18 year, 10 year, 32 year year marriages.

And a lot of them, I will say, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this or can can relate, but I want to mention that they feel they’ve wasted their best years, the majority of their years, and they feel like their life is over.

18:14

Nobody’s going to want them.

That’s a common thing I, I coach on.

So for the person listening, you know, I, I like to say, I say, well, how long do you want to live to your 80s, to your 90s?

A hundred these days.

There’s so many more years.

Actually, we never know fully when we’re gonna go, but I like to help them instill more hope that there are so many more years.

18:36

Even if, say you didn’t meet someone for five more years, but you had 10 great years, wouldn’t that be be worth it?

So that’s that’s one of the main mindset things we have to work on is, is hope and that they didn’t waste all those years.

It was those years because it needed to be until it wasn’t until it needed to be complete.

18:55

Maybe you had children with them.

They couldn’t be any different.

Their parent couldn’t be any different.

So you didn’t mess it up.

There is no mistake, no guilt, no regret.

The main thing is a lot of them, they feel I should have left 10 years ago, 18 years ago, I shouldn’t have even gotten married.

So we’re, we’re working on healing a lot of guilt and a lot of shame, but reframing it as isn’t it better now though?

19:15

You, you’re now going to be open and available to live your best life or this peace, this new found freedom.

Like let’s step into the the hope and the possibility that’s going to come after this.

Oh, yeah, shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Doesn’t work, right.

But what about you just finding yourself, not even another partner, but just being able to look in the mirror and say, Oh my gosh, I really like who I am.

19:37

I’m not really that person.

That spouse made me feel like I was.

And I have financial independence and I can sit on the couch all day and do nothing if I don’t want to.

Or I can go out and start a company.

I mean, I started a company, Karen, when it was like I was 44 when we started this.

Who thought I was going to start a company at 44?

19:54

I know.

Right.

So yeah, I just feel bad for the people that feel trapped.

And for us, it’s always about just getting that financial clarity because that is the liquid courage that you need by looking at data differently and realizing that, yeah, maybe you do need to get a job or guess what, maybe you don’t.

20:12

You can volunteer someplace with your time or do something different.

Whatever it is, you should confront it so that you can make the rest of your life the best of your life.

Yes, and I like that you mentioned just focusing on yourself and sitting on the couch, maybe watching TV.

20:29

That actually is a lot of the healing.

It’s why my podcast, it’s the Coming Home podcast with Doctor Anna Lee, because that is to me, the answer is yes.

Learning how to love yourself, choose yourself, honor yourself, get to know who you are, reconnect with yourself because a lot of times in these relationships, it’s a lot of codependency, hoping that that person makes you feel beautiful or special or fully depending on this person.

20:54

So yes, a lot of my clients actually, or when somebody comes to me, they they aren’t interested right in a new person yet like that, That is rare.

Eventually down the road, we can instill plant a seed hope eventually that will happen.

But they’re usually just I want to breathe, I want to take take a break.

21:13

I want to get to love myself, get to know myself.

But that is the healing around these relationships.

And I always say you rob yourself when you jump right into that next relationship, you’re not doing the healing work and not getting to fully know yourself ’cause when you know that you’re good on your own, especially then when somebody comes along and they don’t light you up, lift you up, support you, encourage you, when you have that kind of self-confidence, that’s when you’re going to say no.

21:36

And you won’t fall for the love bombing or the narcissistic kind of person.

So we want to get you into a state where you’re feeling really secure and confident within yourself.

And that takes time.

But that’s exactly right.

Learn.

Learn to sit with yourself.

Get to know yourself.

Be with yourself.

21:52

What’s a tip you can give someone who wants to get divorced?

They want to leave, but they they feel like they need permission to get financial data, like they’re afraid to ask their spouse for a document or they’re afraid that their spouse will see that they hired us.

You know, they’re just don’t feel like they should do it because they were never allowed to do this before.

22:11

That is, it is a tough one.

And I’ve definitely seen people, they go back and forth and they threaten the divorce to the partner and then the partner convinces them not to do it and they tell that they instill like, you’re not going to be OK financially.

What about this lifestyle?

One thing I’ve noticed is is making sure you have some kind of other support or help.

22:30

So if it’s a family member or a close best friend, I would say daughter, siblings, somebody who can who can help you navigate it because they’re not going to make it.

It’s not going to be easy to ask that.

And it can sometimes increase more more of the the abuse.

22:46

What I say to anyone who’s wanting to go into the next direction is really decide you’re done with the relationship when you know that you’re done and you are serious about the divorce or the breakup.

It’s making sure you’re going to follow through with it.

So if you’re going to go, then ask for that piece of financial information you need.

23:05

Make sure you know that you’re not going to get swayed out of the decision based on them trying to reel you back in.

So it’s when you know that you could handle, they’re going to try to fight it, but you know, you’re so set and solid on it.

You you can handle that or make sure you have support so somebody knows what you’re going through and they might amp up some of their tactics so that you know that you’re safe and secure.

23:24

But I think too many people, they go into it trying to ask for the financial information or they’re threatening the divorce, but they haven’t fully decided.

And that’s when it’s the back and forth and the abuse lingers and it’s really messy.

So it’s the hardest part.

23:39

But when you can fully decide, there’s not a single thing that they could say or that they’ll decide that they’ll do.

That’s going to change my mind.

Then I would go into asking for that information.

The other part that’s coming up is I would make sure my new living arrangements are already going to be set so that you already have either you’re moving with the parent or you’re getting your own apt.

24:01

I would have that in place to be prepared for if you are going to go through.

That’s a big thing I see is people then they don’t know where they’re going to go, what’s going to happen.

I say get the details, those sorted out, then go into the conversation with them and get that information.

24:17

Go through the next steps.

I, I like that you say that, Doctor Anna Lee, and I like that you are helping people understand that there’s a process and it’s a journey.

Because short of that, they’re just going to take the power and give it to somebody else because that’s just how they’ve become accustomed to living life.

24:39

And that’s what Catherine was referring to earlier when she was just saying that they hire an attorney who assumes that role.

And then they wonder a year into the divorce, what is happening.

You know, I’m being directed to do things that aren’t good for me.

24:56

I’m not being respected, my goals aren’t being considered here and it’s because they just took it from one place and gave it to someone, someone else.

Absolutely.

That that is a, a common thing.

I, I, I hear all the time as well.

25:11

And that’s why I say too, this is, these are patterns we carry with us ways that we feel or where we outsource our pattern.

It’s it, it’s too easy sometimes when you just quit your job because you don’t like your boss, you’ll probably attract another, another kind of boss like that.

We have to do the the internal work or yeah, that’s just the temporary, temporary solution.

25:33

So I have a question for you.

So you are you’re in the case you personally know the case was he left you.

Right.

And a lot of times it’s the other way you want to leave the abusive spouse.

What is the difference of the the the two choices?

25:50

Like, do you feel like the person who is left reacts differently than the person who wants to leave?

Yes.

I will say though, in these cases, for example, that person who who did leave, who moved out for four years, he tried to come back.

26:07

It’s a very common thing that they never fully leave you alone or let you go.

So they’ll usually try to come back apologizing, obviously promising some kind of commitment or something to get you to change your mind.

So in those cases, I would say if they leave you to make sure you’re not open and available for them to come back.

26:26

So not being persuaded, which which is what happened in my case, I also have been in other narcissistic relationships that I was the one to yes to leave.

It wasn’t easy, but I eventually got through it and I did it.

And again, it’s that’s why it’s my advice.

26:42

I had to decide I was 100% done.

There was nothing they could say or do to change my mind.

Then I went into the conversation, but I will be honest and say they didn’t take it well.

There was name calling.

There was trying to tell me I’m bad and I’m wrong.

And this is where I see a lot of people, they get persuaded back into it because it’s like especially an empathetic kind of person who attracts these kind of relationships.

27:04

They don’t want to be the thing that this person’s making them try to feel.

So they don’t want to seem like you’re blindsiding them, you’re giving up on them, you’re leaving the children.

So the biggest thing is when you’re the one leaving to make sure you’re secure in your decision.

You know, you’re not a bad person.

27:21

Your intention isn’t bad to hurt them or whatever they’re saying it is.

It’s actually to protect yourself and your children or whatnot.

So we got to be OK with the the things that they’re saying, the guilt, the manipulation to go over the head.

That’s the hardest part when you’re the one leaving, I would say.

27:38

It’s so true.

I can remember my ex telling all the our friends, all these lies.

Oh yes.

And that’s all they wanted to ask me about.

Were these lies?

Were they true or not?

And I said, you know what?

I’m not even responding.

If you’re asking me that question, you could believe.

I believe like you just have to get to that point where you don’t care what people think.

27:54

You know the truth.

You know how you’re living and you need to talk about this.

It is really hard emotionally.

It’s hard on you.

Incredibly hard.

I’m I’m glad you brought that up.

So for anyone listening, the third step of the process I do is it’s the acronym is done.

So Step 3 is N for no more and in that I talk a lot about.

28:13

So if you’ve heard the term flying monkeys, it ultimately is yes, people people who start to be on the narcissist side or they’re questioning you and I heard you did this.

I’m so big on you got to be OK with whatever they think or say.

You don’t need to prove, protect or defend.

28:29

You don’t need to justify yourself.

And if, if they’re really your friend or family member or loved one, then they’re not going to think those things.

It’s the people who were trying to protect an image because we aren’t that thing.

So we never want to be perceived as it.

But I say sometimes you got to let that go.

28:45

If they’re not going to be in your immediate life and you’re going to hold a strong relationship with them to let them think that you’re selfish or crazy or whatever it is.

At the end of the day, you’re protecting your peace and your well-being.

And that has to come above all.

And that’s a hard thing for somebody who who isn’t that thing that they are trying to say that you are.

29:03

But that’s, that’s that place case where you’re, you’re in your worth, you’re in your power, your higher power knows you know what went down and that has to be enough.

I love that you say that, Doctor Annale, because that detanglement is really, really hard.

29:23

But to your point as well, if you’ve taken the opportunity or if if you taking the steps to become prepared and you know, I know where I’m going to live.

I know I have financials available to me to get through this period.

29:40

I know how I’m going to pay my bills.

I know how I’m going to get from A to B.

Then the emotional piece of it is not easy on any level, but easier because you’ve got the financial piece of it set aside at least temporarily.

29:59

And and that is really important because a lot of people, to your point, just leave or they’re left and they’re just completely upended.

And to even speak about a financial transaction is so far removed from them because the emotion is just so drastic.

30:16

I love that you said temporary.

That’s the thing I love to highlight because it’s temporarily.

Yes, you might need to get the side job or full time in your job when you haven’t worked in a while.

You don’t want to do that or whatever it is that you have to do.

It’s temporary.

30:32

It might be a little longer than you think, I say, but at the end of the day, it’s temporary and it is the ticket out to being done with this horrendous situation where you can’t even breathe, you can’t even be yourself.

So that’s the whole principle of sometimes you got to lose some things or temporarily go through some things.

30:50

But eventually, and I the hope of who knows where you’ll be next year, five years, 10 years from now, like there’s so much that could happen, but temporarily we got to do a few little things and make sure financially you’re set.

That or live in the apartment.

I’ve had some that they’ll stay for a while because they’re so afraid of the lifestyle change.

31:09

They’re used to the luxury lifestyle, for example, being able to buy what they want and the car that they want.

And the thing that sucks them back in is, well, I’m going to lose all of that.

I won’t have that.

But I always say, well, how worth it, right?

Like what’s the cost of that high living?

31:26

You know what I mean?

So yeah.

Yeah, Yeah.

That is the heart.

I mean, we have a lot of complex cases that come to us and sometimes it is just about the cash flow.

So we always start with your lifestyle analysis, especially when you own businesses and so forth.

You know, if your lifestyle can be maintained through your settlement, it’s an option.

31:45

You know, we create about different options, but you have to know the impact to all of that.

But again, why sit and live out the rest of your life not knowing?

So even in our process, you know, some people come through their thinking divorce and they see that maybe it’s going to be too difficult financial for me after the fact.

32:04

Maybe I’ll just put up with this and I’ll live like this.

Or maybe I’m like, I get that aha moment or that slap in the head for myself saying holy shit, I can do this on my own.

There is more money here than I thought because I never had control over it.

So I never really knew.

There’s, I just got off the phone with a client who’s on a station this week and she’s saying to her attorney, you don’t understand.

32:24

I, I thought we were poor.

The fact that I’m walking away and it’s a $6 million estate.

I would, I just never expected it.

So she has all these basic questions because it’s just all new to her.

And so to be able to talk through that and just watch her, I mean, I remember just saying to her, because we’ve known her for a while now, you know, I’m so proud of you.

32:43

You are financially clear.

I mean, you still ramble a lot.

So I said you have to stop rambling when you go to mediation because she wants justice that she’s not going to get.

Oh, that’s a big one.

But you have financial clarity and save some of that that justice piece to explanations if it’s needed.

33:00

But when you go in there with data-driven decisions, they can’t say anything to you.

Like they can’t knock you because you’re you’re you’re in cement there.

You got financial clarity and you’re going to direct your attorney.

So, you know, I’m really excited for her to go on Thursday, but you know, just to see her transformation to be not so emotionally driven now, but being financially clear and driven and be able to go to mediation prepared is really the cornerstone to it.

33:30

Karen and I have set up here at My Divorce Solution.

You know, we can’t tell you what to do, but we can definitely give you the tools that you need to make sure you’re financially clear.

Yes, I absolutely love that even it’s it seems a little random, but the point I want to make is I there was a car that I had wanted for so many years and I just thought it was too much money.

33:50

I’ll never be able to I don’t know when I can, but when I decided no, you know what I’m going to go take the steps, the process, let’s get the ball rolling.

I went and I looked at it.

I saw the amount I would need to put down and the monthly payments and able to do it.

And I didn’t think anytime soon I would be able to.

34:06

But the point was I, I went and took that action and I had the conversation.

I went and looked at it.

And when you actually take those next steps and you see what they are, you go, Oh, it’s not that bad.

I actually can do this.

So that’s kind of what I’m picking up with with you guys.

When they come to you, they see, oh, it’s I, I am in a better situation or I can do this or I actually could afford that.

34:26

I could make this decision that I think I wouldn’t be able to.

So I’m all about just just go take the step and then see it work out, yeah.

Figure out which door you want to go through next, Right?

Some people do decide to stay together, some people do decide to move towards divorce, and some people decide to engage in a postnuptial agreement.

34:50

Even if they eventually may get divorced, it could be a temporary step.

So to your point, exploring options doesn’t mean you’re committing to anything you’re committed to knowing.

Yeah.

Oh yes, I am all about that.

35:06

Well, we could go on and on and on and on and on and on about this because even if you’re even if you, you know, you’re not married to a diagnosed narcissist when you’re going through a divorce, everyone feels like their spouse is a narcissist because you have the traits of a narcissist.

35:21

So for sure very important conversation.

But I want to give a little sum up because I like what you said when you said you don’t have to others.

You do not have to prove, protect or defend.

But in divorce, I will tell you this, you do have to prove what your assets are.

35:41

So don’t just go buy a spreadsheet.

You want to prove it with the data and the documents.

You do have to protect yourself.

So you have to get financially clear because it’s the only way you’re protecting yourself.

Your attorney’s not protecting you.

Nobody’s protecting you but you.

So you have to be financially clear to protect yourself.

And you do have to prove to yourself that you can make the rest of your life the best of your life.

36:01

And that’s by becoming clear.

Before you hire your attorney or take the next step, make sure you’re clear because you can prove to yourself that you’re worth it, because you are worth it.

And and as we were saying earlier, you know, you have to decide that you’re better than, you don’t have to be good enough for anyone.

You’re better than anything for yourself.

36:19

Yes, thank you for being.

With us today, it’s been really fabulous.

Can you tell our listeners how they can find you?

Absolutely the best place, the place I’m most active is Instagram.

My handle is Doctor Anneli.

You can find me on all the socials and if you want to listen to more content like this, I do talk about support with Co parenting, custody, all the things, just emotional mental support on my YouTube coming home with Doctor Anneli and you can find that on any Apple podcast as well.

36:47

Oh, we’ll have to get on there and continue this conversation.

Yes.

And your course, Dr. Anna Lee, is right on your website as well, the four step.

Course it is.

Yes, that’s the four steps to recovering from narcissistic relationships, modeled from the 12 steps, but tailored to these these kinds of relationships.

37:06

And the acronym is DONE.

It’s done.

Yep.

You decide that you’re done.

You look at the origin, you say no more, and then you start to enjoy your life.

Love it.

I think that would be helpful to so many.

People all.

Right.

And to our listeners, if you’re navigating divorce after a narcissistic relationship, financial fear often becomes another layer of overwhelm.

37:30

My divorce solution is here to replace that fear with clarity.

Visit azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ to learn how the MD's financial portrait can give you verified numbers, expert insights, and a personalized road map to protect your future.

And don’t forget to join the NDS Community, a free, supportive space filled with resources, guidance, and people who understand what you’re walking through.

37:55

Actually, we should invite you into the community for a live one time, I think.

That is.

No, this is amazing.

I can’t wait to share with my people.

Yeah.

It’s great.

So if you’re listening, just like, follow and share this episode.

Until next time, take a breath, protect your peace, and let knowledge be your power.

38:13

Thanks for joining us on another episode of WeChat Divorce.

We hope this episode was informative and supportive on your divorce journey.

If you're looking for more support for navigating divorce with confidence and clarity, head over to azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more podcast episodes, divorce events, and resources for your divorce.

38:35

We’ll see you back here for our next episode.