Shove Your Shoulds: Bold Decision-Making After Divorce with Jessica Frew

0:00

Welcome to WeChat Divorce, hosted by Karen Chellew, Legal Liaison and Catherine Shanahan, CDFA.

Each episode we sit down with divorced professionals and industry experts to provide insights and frank discussions about real people, real situations, and real divorce to help you achieve your best life post divorce.

0:34

Access.

Welcome back to We Chat Divorce, brought to you by My Divorce Solution.

I’m Karen Chellew, your legal liaison, helping you move through the divorce process with clarity and confidence.

And I’m Catherine Shanahan, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and your partner in navigating the emotional and financial realities of divorce.

0:52

As you know, here at MD’s, we believe that knowledge leads to power and eventually peace.

So today, Karen, we’re having Jessica back.

Jessica Frew.

Yeah.

Which is, I haven’t, we haven’t seen her in a while, but I always like having her on because, you know, she’s got such an upbeat, positive attitude.

So she’s a fun conversation for sure.

1:10

Yeah, I feel she really helps her clients see the difficulties and challenges and help them see their way through.

I I really feel she brings that confidently to the table based on her own experiences.

Yeah, because we always hear clients say I just want to be fair, I don’t want to be greedy.

1:28

And she has a good way to help them not look at it so much that way.

Being smart with your finances isn’t being greedy, and that’s one of the first things a lot of people have to learn, or at least acknowledge that it’s not being greedy, it’s being responsible.

Asking for information from your spouse or getting the information or making the investment for the information.

1:48

It’s it’s being smart and it is being responsible.

Yeah, You know, how many times do we have conversations when we’re doing the portrait?

And you know, everybody wants, I don’t know if it’s they just feel guilty or they don’t wanna tell the truth like, oh, I don’t wanna make my ex pay for that or I want to make my ex pay for that or I don’t want to take too much money from them.

2:06

I feel guilty taking that.

And I can remember numerous times saying we’ll take the money, put in the account, give it to your kids one day if you don’t want it because you never know what’s going to happen in the long run.

You know, you might be come upon a financial hardship that you needed it even if you don’t need it today.

You have to consider everything and get in the know with your finances whether you want to or not.

2:25

For sure.

And you know, we watched so many times a marriage relationship, right, that way of communicating and who does what follow through to the divorce.

But you’re getting divorced for a reason.

So getting out of your head what your spouse says, what they feel is truth or not truth or what they believe is fact or not fact.

2:46

And switching that communication to that’s what is fact versus that’s what someone says.

And it may be interesting, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fact is is really important.

Jessica Frew is a wife, ex mom, mom, step mom, and bold action taker who you will love to hear today who helps people move out of overthinking and into powerful personal alignment.

3:11

Through her BBB Decision Making formula, she empowers women to make clear, confident, and concise choices, especially during life’s biggest pivots like divorce.

She’s also the author of the upcoming book Shove Your Shoulds and someone who truly lives what she teaches Jessica.

3:26

Again, we’re so glad to have you back.

And for listeners who may be meeting you for the first time, can you share a bit about your personal journey or bring us up to date with your personal journey and what has LED you to this bold mission of helping others own their decisions?

For sure.

I went through my divorce, man, what is it like 1314 years ago now?

3:46

I always go from my daughter’s age.

She was 2 when I got divorced.

She’s turning, she’s almost 16 now, which just blows my mind that it’s been that long.

And in that process, I really saw how, you know, our life is kind of lead, Like we kind of have a path or a vision of how it’s going to go.

And when we get married, we have this idea of how it’s going to go.

4:03

And then we get divorced and it’s like, wait, this is definitely not in the path.

And also how, what am I supposed to do?

Should I do this?

How should I feel?

And people are telling you all of these things as you’re navigating that.

And so that’s what really brought me to the point I’m at today.

Now, my divorce, people, I think often assume it was pretty cut and dry.

4:22

My ex-husband is gay.

He had an affair with a man.

We ended up divorced, but also there were a lot of decisions that went into that.

Like I stayed married to him for five years knowing he was divorced.

We had a daughter.

I mean, knowing he was gay, we had a daughter after I found out he was gay.

4:40

And all of these things, like I made decisions during that time that felt in alignment for us and for our family and for our life and continued that after divorce.

People always like, why did you have a kid with him after you knew he was gay?

Why did you guys stay married?

And it’s that thing of we don’t know what we’re going to do until we are in that situation.

4:56

And and we can understand what feels good to us and leave behind.

I always say I’m done thinking about things are right or wrong or good or bad, except like in the very extremes.

But for my own personal life of understanding that I just get to do what feels good for me.

So we got divorced after the affair.

5:13

It was a whole mess.

All of those feelings that you have when you go through an affair or infidelity and divorce were there and we navigated that in a way that allowed us to still be friends and to come together.

I always said in the divorce process, my biggest thing is that I don’t want our daughter to have to worry about us being in the same room.

5:32

Now I’ve been remarried for 12 years now and I have a.

We have a very different situation with my husband’s ex.

So whenever I talk about my relationship with my my ex-husband, I know not everybody can have that.

And so I want to be clear that I know that this isn’t just a given that, Oh yes, you can create this.

5:51

I do believe you can create peace and calm and clarity in your life no matter what your situation.

So my ex-husband and I have, I mean, we still get together for holidays and he’s there for birthdays.

In fact, his birthday is usually celebrated at my house with my family and all of these things.

And so we’ve been able to make decisions and release the sheds in our life of how this is supposed to look to embrace something that works for us.

6:15

And I think I mean, 90% of the women I work with are navigating.

Do I stay in the relationship, do I leave?

I send a lot of women your way as they are preparing to navigate this, put a bug in their ear because I know we can’t.

Like we need all the support we can get.

We need to understand what this looks like for us and understand how do I release the idea of what I thought my life was going to look like to embrace something that feels good?

6:38

Is it going to be what we planned?

No, because we’re getting divorced.

But can we have a life that feels really good?

Yes.

And I like it gets me all lit up because I want to help women see that and understand that and feel that and come out stronger and more empowered and more prepared for whatever it is they want post divorce.

6:55

So let me interject a little bit here and just back up a little bit because I find it interesting, you know, and I know your story, right?

Because I’ve met you before and I, you know, I’m really fond of you and what you do.

But I also find it interesting because in the last few years we’ve had a lot of clients come to us whose spouses have come out as being gay.

7:12

And so, but the way you handled it, I think speaks to why you 2 are so amicable right now.

You find out that he’s gay, which is fine.

You find out a bad way because he had an affair, which is not fine, but then you decide to stay together.

But your mind must have been knowing that eventually you’ll get divorced or maybe you will.

7:30

But I want to have a child and you know, people do surrogacy and everything.

So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with staying with your spouse to have a child.

You know, who cares what your friend said at the time, right?

But I think that’s smart what you did.

You loved him for some reason.

So you know you want to have a child with him, but you kind of was you were you were already thinking divorced subconsciously and planning out and so you would do it.

7:49

But you made this decision to stay amicable and have a child, which I think is great, which is why you’re great Co parents.

But a lot of people can’t handle the shock of finding out that their spouse has had an affair and then with, you know, the opposite sex.

So is it easier to move on knowing that he doesn’t have another woman in his life and then that it’s a man?

8:06

So there’s no jealousy there?

Is that an easier pill to swallow, do you think?

You know, I’ve been asked this a lot over the years and I I don’t believe it can be compared like I, I don’t believe in comparing our pain or our loss or all of those things.

I think it’s just real to everybody in there in that situation.

8:24

Now, what for me, I think was different and kind of unique is I did have this.

So I knew he was gay two years and he didn’t have an affair until five years later.

But with that, I still carried this thought in the back of my head that this could and enforced.

I read some books about mixed orientation marriage at the time and that wasn’t the terms they were using and all of that.

8:45

But I read books about individuals who had stayed, couples who had stayed in these marriages.

And a lot of the time they ended up, there was an affair.

Some of them came back from the affair.

Most of the times they ended up divorced.

And so I knew that I was choosing to put myself in a situation where this was even like a high, like super high possibility of this happening.

9:03

You go into marriage now and it’s like what, 5060% of people get divorced?

I don’t even know what this statistic is, but then we’re adding this on top of it.

I’m like, OK, I know I am choosing into something where this is a very real possibility.

I also made a very clear distinction that the things Steve was going through, the issues he was having, all of those things, the struggles, when he would step outside of what we had considered boundaries for our marriage and he would tell me about that.

9:29

Not like a full affair, but just different things that happened.

I knew it wasn’t about me.

Now, that doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt.

That doesn’t mean it wasn’t painful.

Like all of those things.

I just was able to kind of separate the two on some level.

I definitely had moments where I was still angry at him and bitter and all those things.

9:46

So a lot of the same feelings were there.

It was still betrayal.

It was still all of that.

And so I don’t, I don’t know, I’ve always wondered, like at this point, I’m like, I don’t care what Steve does.

As long as he’s happy.

I don’t care if he’s with a man or a woman.

I don’t care all of those things.

10:01

And when I first got divorced, I just told him, I’m like, you better never be with another woman.

If you were ever with another woman, I’m going to be so mad.

And then he toyed with dating like a couple of different women at times.

It never went anywhere.

But like he went out on one or two dates and I remember just thinking even like a year after our marriage, like I don’t even care anymore.

10:22

All I care is that he’s happy.

Like we aren’t meant to be together.

And one thing like speaking to your point about choosing to stay in this marriage and have a child with him, one of the things that Steve told Penny, our daughter when she was really little was, listen, your mom and I chose to have a child together because we are best friends and we love each other.

10:41

And that’s who you want to have children with, or it’s the person that you’re a best friend with and that you do love.

And that’s why we, we wanted to have a baby.

And so even though our marriage didn’t work out, we still get to love and support each other on this journey and love and support you.

And I think that was, I mean, he started telling her that when she was like 5 or 6.

10:57

And I think that was just like a really powerful thing for her to hear and understand.

But that was something we chose very intentionally.

We chose to let our relationship shift and we chose to see it in a new light.

Both of us did.

Both of us created this vision of what we hoped for.

11:13

And we’ve evolved and, you know, allowed that to shift and to change as relationships do throughout our lives.

But yeah, I don’t know if the pain is the same because I haven’t experienced.

That, I mean, it’s a good point, you know, doesn’t really matter, man, woman or whatever.

You still have the same emotions we all do.

11:30

But you know, you had the chance to think about what divorce would look like.

And that’s what we do with our clients.

We have a lot of people I like when they come to us when they’re thinking divorce because financial reality can change your decision.

So, you know, it’s hard to go through the emotional feelings when you don’t know the financial impact.

So, you know, you’re also a testament of thinking through divorce and what will it look like and how will we deal with this?

11:51

Just makes the process better, better, easier.

Or, you know, it’s still not easy, but I don’t know that means a word, but.

It’s more informed and it’s more intentional.

And I think that’s why, well, it’s one of the huge reasons I always tell women who are navigating this, I’m like, here are some steps you need to check 1st and you guys are at the top of my list.

12:08

I don’t know if they do, but I’m like, go, go get at least the checklist, their free checklist of here are things you need to know.

Here are things you need to understand because it’s either going to leave them feeling empowered, like, Oh, I do know my financial information.

I do know these things that I need to do, or they’re going to be like, Oh crap, I need to figure a lot of things out.

12:26

Now that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re not going to get divorced because of it, but we need information and we get so scared by that action step and I’m they’re like, what if I don’t know anything?

I’m like, then you know, like then you know you don’t know the information.

Like then you know what information you we need to get.

And instead of being afraid of taking those next steps forward and gathering the information we need to make an informed decision, we instead spiral about it.

12:49

We instead make up information in our heads.

We gather information from unreliable sources.

We talk to our friends, we talk to our family.

We talk to these people who probably don’t really know instead of going to people who can really support us and help us.

And so that’s like part of the decision making process that I talk about is, listen, we don’t want to spiral.

13:07

We’re not going to get stuck in over thinking.

We want to engage with reliable sources.

We want to gather information, not continually gathering information.

There’s so much information.

We just want the information we need.

We want to take action and then we want to know what happens on the other side of that, because nothing’s really permanent.

13:26

It’s true.

And you know, a lot of people, it’s in my experience, think that to invest in a service to get your financial portrait or to understand your financials and the financial impact, right?

It’s knowing what you have and what your options are that’s really important.

13:42

But I often find myself reassuring clients, look, signing up doesn’t mean you’re signing up to get divorced.

It means you’re signing up to get clear whether you stay married or whether you get divorced or whether you get a post number.

Whatever you decide to do, it actually allows for more clarity of your next steps.

13:59

And I think a lot of people don’t realize that.

They think that if they take that step and, and you said a lot of your clients are in the thinking about it stage, that step to them could equate to then this means I’m going to get a divorce.

Yeah.

And that feels scary.

And it means things about us.

14:15

Well, if I get divorced, it means I’m a failure or it means like all of these things we’ve created in our heads.

And that’s one of the reasons, like in my bio, when you read it, I say the first thing I say is I’m a mom, a stepmom, a wife and ex-wife.

Yeah, because I’m proud of those things.

14:31

Like those can hold such a negative connotation.

And yet those are some of the things I am the most proud of in my life.

And so helping people see that we can change this narrative in our head to understand that, no, this is an opportunity to feel empowered.

This is an opportunity to take back control of my life.

14:47

Whether I leave the relationship or not, it doesn’t matter.

We still are going to start owning our decision making and owning our power in that process in ways we wouldn’t have before.

And like you’re saying, like we stay in that spiral of just not knowing instead of taking in action.

I always tell women, 90% of the decision making process, those first two steps of the BBB decision making formula, which are be gentle and be humble are 9.

15:10

They’re 90% of it. 10% is taking the bold, imperfect action.

Like we’re going to be bold and take the action, and that’s where the magic happens.

That’s where we build confidence in ourselves.

That’s where we build understanding, That’s where we gain information to know what we do next and what actually feels good for us.

15:27

And so I think it’s important that we understand that, but we’ve been so trained to judge ourselves that it feels so hard to take any action towards what it is we feel we might want and need.

Yeah.

And sometimes we don’t know what that is either.

Also 100.

Percent.

And if we don’t act, we’re never going to know.

15:43

Right, right.

Each step.

So when someone’s even scared to look at the numbers, you know, we’re all about financials here.

How do you help them navigate through that decision?

So on the front end, we’re gonna understand like, what is the fear here?

What is the fear we are placing on understanding these numbers or seeing them?

16:01

What are we afraid of that it means about us?

That’s usually, it’s usually attached to something that it means about us.

Like, oh, I should have, I should, I should have known this.

I should have been more involved.

I should have like been on the mortgage.

I should have whatever things we’re telling ourselves and we’re placing judgment before we actually act.

16:17

And so to get over those fears, we need to try to attach some sort of, well, first of all, we have to acknowledge them and see them.

And then we need to get in this spot where we can understand why it’s important and why we even want to understand those.

So when I say be humble as a second step, people often think, oh, I need to be like a doormat.

16:34

I need to be, you know, self deprecating or something.

And I’m like, no, this is the opposite.

We are going to be proud of what we do, but it’s letting go of that ego that I am wrong or I’m going to be wrong.

If I understand this information, we’re going to release that ego.

We are going to humble ourselves, release our ego so that we can get the information we actually need.

16:53

I want to be wrong that divorce is going to ruin my life.

Like that’s a belief we carry.

This is going to ruin the rest of my life.

It’s going to ruin my children’s lives, and therefore I can’t do it.

So being humble is about switching that narrative and allowing ourselves to be wrong.

Or maybe it’s the greatest thing I ever do.

Maybe divorce is the doorway that opens up so much in my life, which is what I truly believe for people who it’s in alignment, like it can be a door to something amazing.

17:15

So we have to get over that and we have to then once we recognize it, acknowledge it.

See the fear, See, you know, the thoughts we’re having is always tell women, I’m like, the only things that you can fear are the things you know.

And right now we are attaching that fear to what we believe we know on the other side of that, but we haven’t even thought about what we don’t know.

17:35

Like you don’t know, you might know a lot more information than you think, which I know you guys have said often that happens where women are like, I knew more than I was giving myself credit for or I know nothing, but I know how to get that information.

And then also we have to attach it to some sort of pleasure of like, oh, this could be good.

17:53

This could be enlightening.

I am going to feel empowered.

I’m not just going to feel like, Oh, crap, I know nothing.

We can take, Oh, crap, I know nothing and go, OK, but now I know what I need to know, which I didn’t know that before.

That’s information.

And so just like shifting those things.

And once you take one step, you start getting the confidence to take another step and another step and another step.

18:14

And so we have to people think like confidence comes from more information and it doesn’t confidence comes from taking the action.

So we have to take the action.

Yeah, I feel like confidence comes in financial clarity and it’s taking that action that you’re most, you know, a lot of people don’t have a good relationship with money.

They’re afraid of numbers.

18:30

And so once they get just a little bit of clarity and it’s even knowing what you don’t know, right, That’s clearly too.

So it does help you move forward.

And I’d love to see that transition when they get that information and they talk a little different to you, they get a little sass in them right before they’re able to advocate for themselves.

18:46

And that’s really a good feeling.

Yeah, I mean, that’s why we do this work in working with women.

I I can see it in your face, Catherine, too, of this excitement of when that moment hits.

Like you can see it in them.

You can hear it in them.

And I’m like, Oh my gosh, I love those moments when they embrace their confidence and their power and they’re like, oh, OK, that wasn’t so scary.

19:05

Now I can do the next thing.

It’s not so bad.

I can do the next thing.

And they start taking ownership of their lives, whether they stay in their marriage or not.

Like that’s it doesn’t matter either way.

Taking this action is going to build your confidence and going to strengthen the relationship you you have that you are thinking of leaving or it’s going to set you up powerfully to leave.

19:23

Yeah.

And there’s so many decisions that you don’t have to make today, right?

A lot of people want to think all the way through all the what ifs and if they can just stick with the next step and know that those decisions will remain there, but you’ll have more information to make those decisions, I think that’s so important and powerful.

19:40

And I hear you saying that that’s how you work with your clients as well.

Yeah, 100%.

And I’m going to share examples specifically financially from when I got divorced about this.

And I may have shared this last time, but we’re a ways out.

So I like, I was a stay at home mom and all of the things when Steve and I got divorced.

19:58

And you know, I we were living in Oklahoma at the time.

We owned a house in Boise, which is Boise, ID, which is where I live now.

And I was like, Steve, I can’t stay here.

We just moved here.

I don’t know anybody in Oklahoma.

I need support.

I’m going to go move into our house and renters had like just moved out.

20:13

So it’s like perfect timing.

And he’s like, OK, I understand, go ahead.

So I pack up my daughter, I drive across the country and move into this little house and I’m like, I have no idea how financially we are going to make things work.

We we were fine, but not we were not like, well off.

20:29

And I just didn’t question it.

I was like, I’m going to figure this out.

I know that right now this is the thing I need and I’m going to embrace it.

And I also knew I couldn’t live with my parents.

I just was like, emotionally, that wasn’t going to be supportive to me.

Amazing parents love them to death.

And also, so it was going to be too much to carry all of their emotion in this and whatever.

20:48

So I trusted the process.

I moved in and it was during like when the the real estate market was tanking and everybody short sailing and all these things.

And we talked to the bank like, what can you do for us on this?

This is our situation.

They said we can’t do anything until you stop making your mortgage payment.

21:03

I’m like, are you serious?

And they’re like, yeah, we can’t help you unless you’re genuinely not paying.

So I was like, OK, so we stopped paying.

So I stayed in this house, not paying a rent or mortgage.

And then they’re like, OK, here’s the short sale.

All this stuff, we’re like, great, this is amazing.

We’ll take it.

21:20

And the lady they assigned to do all of this for us calls me what?

And I during this time too, I’m applying for jobs.

This is like 6 months post divorce that I’m in this house.

Like I stay in it for six months.

I’m applying for jobs.

I got some really great job offers.

And I just thought, I can’t do this like emotionally and mentally, I can’t step into this.

21:38

I know this is what single moms do.

I know this is what I should do.

I know all of these things.

I was like, I can’t do it.

I’m just going to trust that things are working for my gut.

And I worked like I had a job at a Chinese restaurant that I worked for three hour lunch shift once a week.

I did, I sewed out of my house.

So I was working just not like a ton and very manageable for where I was at.

21:58

I watered plants at a hotel once a week, like the most random stuff ever.

And Penny would like come with me.

She’s too with her little watering can.

And so anyway, I knew I was going to have to start paying rent because I had to move out of this house.

And I was like so grateful that I’d had this time.

22:14

And I’m prepping myself And like one night I remember clearly being like, OK, you’re going to get a job.

This still gets me emotional.

And the next morning, this woman who is assigned to our like case, like to sell our house and all this stuff.

She calls me.

And she said, Jessica, I didn’t want to tell you this until I knew for sure it was set in stone.

22:32

I just need you to sign this paper and you will get $5000 when you move out of the house.

And for me at that time, I was like, Oh my gosh, are you kidding me?

And I just started crying.

I was like, thank you so much.

And she had done this without telling me, without like any needs.

She didn’t know me.

22:47

And I was so grateful.

And I took that $5000 check and I put it straight down on to pay for my rent for however long that was.

And I was like, OK, we can keep maintaining this life now because I know my rent is paid for the next however long.

And I remember when that rent when when I had my lease was going to be up or like I needed to put more money on, I was like, OK, here we go again.

23:09

Like time to go get a job.

And my ex-husband was like, I can move into your apartment if you can find somewhere, you know that works.

And my mom’s childhood best like my mom’s best friend when I was a kid reached out and said, hey, I have this house, I’m leaving.

I have to go take care of my dad in California.

Do you and Penny want to live there for free?

23:26

I was like, what is happening?

But I truly believe that when we don’t try to plan every detail and try to think so far ahead of how is this going to work?

How am I going to make this?

You know how how can I force this or I need to know every detail?

Things workout in the weirdest, craziest ways.

23:44

And sometimes it is that we go get the job and it’s OK.

Like we realize, oh, I’m OK getting this job or I’m OK doing this work.

And sometimes it’s just the most random stuff that falls into our lap because we are trusting our innate intuition.

I firmly believe it does not lead us astray when we are deeply connected to it and things work out and financially we can figure this out.

24:03

I work with so many women.

They’re like, I can’t leave.

I can’t whatever because of XY and Z.

And I’m like, there are ways to figure this out, but you have to put it out into the universe.

You have to get the information you need.

You need to know how much money you can.

Like you need to live bare minimum and like make things work.

Like understanding that is power.

24:20

So then you can be like, oh I can work 3 hours at a Chinese restaurant and water plants and sew a couple sewing jobs a month and get by and be OK.

And so figuring out those different things, it’s power.

And well, you know, it’s more than just, I think you’re shorting yourself a little bit there.

I’m a big science person and everything out in the universe.

24:38

And I believe that there’s a plan and it’s it’s happening.

Whether I think it’s taking too long or not, that’s another story.

But what you, but what you’re missing or not highlighting is your ability to pivot along the way.

So when people going through divorce and we do their budget with them, some sit there and say, well, no, I’m not changing anything, this is what it is I’m doing or no, we go through their division scenarios.

24:58

This is the house.

I can’t leave that house.

I’m not leaving the house.

Gonna wear my kids.

But you know, you’re negotiating away all your other assets.

I don’t care.

I’m doing this.

That’s not being able to pivot or being able to adjust to get to the next stage.

And that’s a scary thing.

I get it.

If you’re going through the divorce process, it’s very scary, but you won’t move forward if you don’t take those chances.

25:15

Like you wanted to live in your house.

You couldn’t do that.

So you went to an apartment.

Yes, you’ve got a few months that were paid for a great, but then you realize I got to pivot again.

Who wants to move all those times?

Nobody does, especially with a 2 year old right now.

You have to go and you’re going to a place that became more affordable because it was someone that wasn’t charging you.

25:30

But a lot of people will just sit there and say no, I, I need somebody to take care of this.

So you know, congratulations to you for being a little pivot and move along the way.

Not only did you do it for yourself, but it’s a great lesson that your daughter probably is today valuing because she’ll remember that, right.

So so yes, I do believe in, you know, manifest.

25:48

OK, here I go again with my words.

Manifestation thank you you’re.

Welcome.

But be able to pivot along the way if it’s not going the way you thought it would be or if it’s taking too long, yeah.

Yeah, and that’s that be humble stage of saying, oh, this is what I really want.

But instead we’re like so hyper focused on what we think we want and how it has to look that we don’t open ourselves up to any possibility.

26:10

I call it like a box beliefs where we stick ourselves in this box and that’s all we can see.

And unless we open up the top of that box and look out, we, we aren’t open to what could be.

And this morning I was out on a walk and I was just like thinking about clients and people who say, Oh, I can’t work with you because I have to stay in the house.

26:27

Like I have to provide this structure for my kids.

Like they need to fill this.

I’m like, what your kid actually needs is for for you to do what is best for you.

Your kid needs you to take care of yourself emotionally and mentally more than ever right now in this moment.

26:43

And if that means getting out of the house, you’re into something that is more affordable, that’s what it means.

Because then they are going to have a stable parent who is doing like, who is mentally and emotionally taking care of themselves and can move through that mental and emotional well-being more quickly.

26:59

The goal isn’t to like rush it.

There’s always going to be things that come up.

Last week I had a moment of grieving still from what I thought my daughter’s life would look like and all of these things, you know, from 14 years ago when we got divorced.

I can grieve that.

I can feel it, whatever.

But also I can move through those things more quickly because you’re right, Catherine, we’ve opened the box.

27:17

We’re open to pivoting.

We’re open to seeing things can be different.

And it, it’s huge.

And so getting so stuck on, while I’m entitled to this and I deserve this and all those things, yes, you do deserve a lot.

You deserve to feel at peace.

You deserve to feel these things.

And also, if we can release that, like need to hold on to that identity and hold on to being right, release that ego, we get to open ourselves up to so much more, so much more.

27:43

And interesting too.

I had a all the guys I dated when I was single, which I dated a lot.

I like dating, it’s fun.

It’s also a mess.

But.

That’s a whole nother podcast.

Oh my gosh, they would tell me that I needed to get a real job and I’m like, what?

27:59

I’m like, I’m not asking you for money.

I am not asking you for a dime.

Like I will pay my for my own dinners.

Like I don’t care.

And I just thought that was so interesting that they again, that’s their should.

Well, that’s what single moms do.

And I’m like, I am taking care of me and my daughter and that’s all that matters.

There was only one man that didn’t tell me that and I’m married to him now.

28:16

This is amazing.

You can understand that you get to do life your own way and be open to the pivot, be open to different possibilities.

But again, we got to open that door.

We got to open up the box and let that be seen.

And you got to be open to knowing, right?

So many people are afraid to know.

28:34

And then like, expand that to so many people who come to my divorce solution and go through the process.

There’s so much more there or a different lens than they could have ever imagined.

And when they hear that from us to say, you know, has your attorney told you or do you know that you actually have this much cash flow available to your family?

28:55

Do you know that you have these assets?

Do you know sometimes that you shouldn’t be spending down property that should be divided and not be spent in this moment?

But do you know these things?

And they don’t?

But being brave enough to know is a really, really important step for sure.

29:12

Well, and we’re especially coming out of divorce where we’ve been, you know, so many of us have been gaslit or been manipulated or betrayal or all of these things that could happen that led to the divorce.

And whether any of those things happen, there’s usually some form of self betrayal that has happened because we aren’t listening to what it is we want and need.

29:29

We are very afraid to trust what we do actually know.

We’re afraid to trust that inner knowing in our self that says you can move into this house, you and your daughter, you can drive across the country and move into this house and it’s going to be OK.

It’s going to be OK because that didn’t feel OK in the moment.

29:48

It did.

Once I started, I was like, oh, I am seeing how this is working now.

I’m seeing these things and I feel at peace with it.

But it is Trudy.

Well, knowing, but to interject here, you, you can say you know you’re going to be OK, which is great, but that doesn’t mean that it was easy, no. 100% yeah, yes.

30:05

And that’s what I always speak to.

I’m like, just because it’s something you know you need to do doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easy in that moment.

Doesn’t mean any of those things, but it’s going to be easier in the long run because ultimately it’s what’s best for you.

It’s not right or wrong, it’s not good or bad.

It’s just that what’s best for you in that moment.

30:22

Yeah, it’s great.

So I know we can go on and on and on about this, right?

And so remember, if you’re listening, the three of us were not there when we went through our process.

We’re there, there.

We’re there now.

So we get to share this.

And so I’m hearing three major takeaways today.

And one is be in the know.

30:39

You know, you have to be in the know whether it’s good, better and different.

You’re not, you’re doing yourself a disservice if you’re not in the know.

And for us, it’s knowing your financials, right?

The other thing is you need to be able to pivot.

Things are going to be OK, but they’re going to pivot along the way.

It’s it’s your journey and that’s OK.

And as Jessica says, you need to be humble.

30:57

So in order to know, in order to pivot, you have to be humble.

And that’s letting go a lot of the self doubt that you have or even the self praise that you have.

You have to put that stuff aside so that you can really go on to make the rest of your life the best of your life.

Thank you so much, Jessica, for all that insight.

So tell us about your book and tell our listeners how they can find you.

31:14

I understand, thank you.

And so my book, the whole point of it is to connect you back to yourself.

Like you said at the end of that, like this step, the key is to really knowing and understanding yourself so that you can trust yourself to take these actions and all of that.

I hope you get there.

I think often we talk about the steps, the broader steps without understanding how we go back to that base.

31:34

So my book is called Shove your shoulds become a decision making badass to live the bold life you deserve.

And it is all about how we release this programming that’s been so deeply conditioned into US, especially if you’ve gone through anything hard in your life, any sort of, you know, things we go through and we’re heading towards a divorce.

31:51

And so it will help you set that groundwork and lay those things out there.

So you can go pick that up at shove your shoulds.com and it is there for you.

I don’t know when this episode’s dropping, but it’s on presale until September 12th.

And then it will be officially out there into the world.

32:06

And you can go get that.

And if by some chance you get it on presale, you can get six weeks of coaching with me when you buy that book for $67.

And it’s a great deal.

It’s amazing.

It’s.

Amazing, the group coaching program that takes you through this whole process and it’s live and it’s so good.

It’s my favorite program to offer.

32:23

So I was like, I’m gonna throw this out there with this book right now.

So yeah, go pick it up.

You can find me on Instagram at Hey Jessica Fruit.

That is where I am the most active.

And there you go.

Congratulations about that and I love the title.

Yeah.

Thanks, I love that.

And for our listeners, don’t forget to like, share and subscribe.

32:41

It helps us reach more people who need community, clarity and confidence for divorce during divorce and also give them the opportunity to get Jessica’s books.

And if you’re ready to stop overthinking and start preparing with purpose, visit us at My Divorce solution.com.

Financial clarity is one of the smartest decisions you can make.

33:00

Until next time, take a breath, trust your gut, and let knowledge be your power.

Thanks for joining us on another episode of WeChat Divorce.

We hope this episode was informative and supportive on your divorce journey.

If you're looking for more support for navigating divorce with confidence and clarity, head over to azure-emu-499854.hostingersite.com/ for more podcast episodes, divorce events, and resources for your divorce.

33:28

We’ll see you back here for our next episode.